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 Post subject: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:22 pm 
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Victor I
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Hello all

A friend of mine is selling several Edison Amberolas etc., and I am helping him. In appreciation he gave me this Pathé machine on a cast iron base. It looks like a Phenix, but does not have the round speed control, and also it has the Pathé horn suspension system that is marked "Pathé". The part that supports the horn is interesting, I have not seen that on a Pathé before. Any suggestions? It also takes the Inter sized mandrel. Here are some pics.

Thanks

John Robles


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:15 am 
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Victor I
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I just noticed that the horn bracket arms are engraved with the Pathé rooster and the words "Pathé Frères London Ltd., which could explain the subtle differences from the typical Pathé machines.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:57 pm
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Hi All , the mechanism was sold in UK as a " Perfecta " model -- but the black japanned cast base I am certain does not belong to it.
I have seen dozens of original Pathé catalogues and adverts both English and French , and have not seen such a base shown in any Pathé illustrations. Tell tale signs are the modern style ( rounded pan - head ) fixing screws holding the mechanism to the base and also the lack of any provision to secure a wooden cover . OK , screws are sometimes replaced , but also I notice that the exact dimensions of the cast base do not match entirely well with the plated base- plate of the phonograph mechanism. There were French phonograph manufacturers that did use bases like this -- indeed I have an example at present from an unknown maker , slightly larger dimensions , the mechanism being designed as a Duplex machine for playing Grand Concert cylinders as well as ordinary standard size cylinders. Regards Dulcetto


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Victor O
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I would also mention that the horn is a modern reproduction , its support rod is also of recent construction and there would have been a cover over the drive- belt ( these small metal covers are often missing on Pathé phonographs -- mainly as the tiny screws which hold them in place are a pain in the backside to screw in or out , and are easily lost , being so small and awkward to fit )Dulcetto


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:28 am 
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Victor I
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Dulcetto wrote:
I would also mention that the horn is a modern reproduction , its support rod is also of recent construction and there would have been a cover over the drive- belt ( these small metal covers are often missing on Pathé phonographs -- mainly as the tiny screws which hold them in place are a pain in the backside to screw in or out , and are easily lost , being so small and awkward to fit )Dulcetto


Hi

Thanks for the info. I have had three Pathé cylinder phonographs in the past, as well as a Menestrel. I am hoping I can find the belt cover. I think the support arm is original as I have found it in an old Pathé ad for a No. 1 sold by J. Girard et Cie as well as on the Pathé Democratique. Photo of the No. 1 and ad attached. As for the base I think you are right, I've never seen a Pathé without at least a rudimentary wood cabinet. Regarding the horn, again having had three original Pathés and a Menestrel, I would have to say it is an original, especially as the old rubber connector was hard as a rock and filled with cracks from age. It had obviously been on there for decades. The condition of it reminded me of the old rubber gasketing around the doors in my dad's 1954 Chevy pickup! Although I would like to know your reason for thinking it is a repro. My opinions are not set in stone! Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:30 am 
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Victor I
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Also I would tend to agree that the base is not original to the machine. Erhaps the wood cabinet was rotted or otherwise damaged. It seems like a lot of work to go to to drill a piece of cast iron when you could just get another piece of wood! Now I have to look for a cabinet...


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:29 am 
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Victor VI
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John,
That base looks to be an old original phonograph base of some type... It reminds me of the fancy bases that were made for Columbia Qs, maybe an aftermarket base. I wouldn't change it or replace it, leave it like it is. That is not just a piece of cast iron that was found somewhere and just happened to fit, (IMO) and even if it's not correct, it looks good. The documentation on Pathé machines is scant and that might be something unusual... Personally, I like it just the way it is.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:39 am 
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Victor VI
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As far as the base being larger than the plated base of the machine, that is how most wooden bases are made, with a small border around the machine's base. It would look weird if it was the exact same size, from an aesthetic viewpoint...

Round or oval head slotted screws were commonly used at that time, in fact the original mechanism has round head screws holding it together... There are also screws on the mechanism which resemble "pan head" screws, so without examining the screws holding the base to the iron base, I can't make a determination of whether they are modern or not... at least they aren't Philips head screws... :lol:
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Victor IV
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I would agree that the base is almost certainly not original, but personally I would keep it that way. It's very attractive, probably very old, and it is a part of the machine's history. It adds a lot of interest.

I can't really judge the horn from the picture, but usually repro Pathé-style horns stand out because they have fine swirl marks from the spinning process, leaving a satin finish. Originals were highly polished to remove such lines. The repros also tend to be heavier in weight. Here's a comparison -- repro on top.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone recognize this Pathé cylinder machine?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Victor V
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TinfoilPhono wrote:
I would agree that the base is almost certainly not original, but personally I would keep it that way. It's very attractive, probably very old, and it is a part of the machine's history. It adds a lot of interest.

I can't really judge the horn from the picture, but usually repro Pathé-style horns stand out because they have fine swirl marks from the spinning process, leaving a satin finish. Originals were highly polished to remove such lines. The repros also tend to be heavier in weight. Here's a comparison -- repro on top.


Man, now I need to polish my repro horn ;)
JK. Thanks for showing the difference Rene.

Andreas


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