HMV meets EMG

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
gramophoneshane
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by gramophoneshane »

And for the sake of comparisons, here's the same song on the 202.
For some reason unknown to me, Henry Hall's recordings were sold on the cheaper Regal-Zonophone label here in Australia, and under the pseudonym "The Rhythmic Troubadours".
I can't imagine a replacement copy would be too hard to get Alex. They're really quite common over here, as is "TBP", but then apparently TBP isn't so easy to find in the UK, so maybe this isn't either?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCTXEwvwDk[/youtube]

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OrthoSean
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by OrthoSean »

Neat to hear these comparisons. I won a copy of the Hall disc a few years ago for around $8-10, so I'd assume if I could find one in the US, there'd be more across the pond. "TBP" = Teddy Bears' Picnic, I assume? That shows up here too. I have a few different UK pressings of it (Ambrose??? UK Decca, anyway) and another on Regal Zonophone by a band who's name I can't recall. I also seem to think I have a Columbia of it by Mantovani, but I can't be sure. I haven't seen or looked for any of them in a LONG time!

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old country chemist
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by old country chemist »

I tried an H.M.V. 5a Soundbox on my Expert Senior, several years ago,to see what the result would be. The sound was clear, but the volume was diminished to a certain extent, and the bass response was certainly not anywhere near as good as if the 5a had been on my 163. All the components of the re-entrant
system work well together, but it seems that the 5a box was not matched to the Expert's acoustical range. I have tried many reproducers on my Expert, including cheap mass produced items, and some of them gave a more forward tone than the 5a. The Meltrope No 1-as I am sure others have found, is nearly equal in quality of reproduction as an Expert, or Davey soundbox. At 12/6p in 1930, this soundbox must have been the finest value for gramophonologists.
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expert senior 2.JPG

old country chemist
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by old country chemist »

I forgot to mention that this Expert Senior must be one of last produced by David Phillips and Michael Ginn, after 1939-45 war, probably around 1947. Two main differences to the machine are 1. brown felting inside lid, and 2. a special sprung horn stay to stop drooping-which it has done succesfully, as the machine came, years ago, from a damp, draughty old vicarage, in Cornwall. I prefer to use a Davey soundbox rather than an Expert one-just my preference, I suppose. I will later try to send a picture of a rare 4 spring "Overstall" soundbox, manufactured in the late 1970s, by George Overstall, a lifelong experimenter in acoustics, who died in 1998, aged 88 years. He told me it took him over 100 hours to manufacture it. Just to mention that this is a most informative forum indeed!

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Orchorsol
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by Orchorsol »

old country chemist wrote:I forgot to mention that this Expert Senior must be one of last produced by David Phillips and Michael Ginn, after 1939-45 war, probably around 1947. Two main differences to the machine are 1. brown felting inside lid, and 2. a special sprung horn stay to stop drooping-which it has done succesfully, as the machine came, years ago, from a damp, draughty old vicarage, in Cornwall. I prefer to use a Davey soundbox rather than an Expert one-just my preference, I suppose. I will later try to send a picture of a rare 4 spring "Overstall" soundbox, manufactured in the late 1970s, by George Overstall, a lifelong experimenter in acoustics, who died in 1998, aged 88 years. He told me it took him over 100 hours to manufacture it. Just to mention that this is a most informative forum indeed!
Fantastic to see your Expert, many thanks for posting! And I look forward to seeing the Overstall soundbox.

You make the crucial point about impedance matching - people claim one or other soundbox to be "the best" (EMG/Expert or Orthophonic designs) but I do believe that is meaningless since the whole acoustic system is quite different in each case.

Interesting regarding the brown felting inside the lid - my Junior has it too. Do you have any information on when that started? Various people have guessed at a date for mine and the concensus has been late 30s, but that's by no means definite...
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

old country chemist
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by old country chemist »

overstall soundbox 2.JPG
overstall soundbox 2.JPG
Hello again, In answer to Orchorsol's question about brown felting in the lid of Expert Models, I cannot say-but it must be later in the Ginn period, perhaps even just after the war-someone on the forum will know The Davey machines had it, I think, right from the start. Now, here, hopefully is the picture of the George Overstall soundbox, carefully crafted by the old chap in the late 1970s or thereabouts. An interesting detail is how the springs are simple "L" shaped devices. I suppos he found it easier to make them from old clock springs. He spent his life supplying tools and ironmongery, and had a very nice pre-war lathe.In the late 1920s he made his first gramophone-about the size of a 202.I saw a photograph of it many years ago. His large square horned gramophone with a plywood horn, 30 inches square, was his pride for many years. I believe it to be now somewhere in France.He was also a very good carpenter.I now have his Aluminium diaphragm spinning equipment, and hopefully will get use of a lathe to produce a few, sometime in the future.

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chunnybh
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by chunnybh »

I'm drooling over the Expert Senior. Very nice indeed.
1. brown felting inside lid, and 2. a special sprung horn stay to stop drooping
The earliest felted lid I have come across is on an EMG Mk IV from 1929, but then a lot of the later models are not felted. Probably an option for each client.
The Experts seem to get felted after the move to Firth st ,1935.
The felt definitely reduces needle noise. I'm sure the same principle would improve the Victor Orthophonic's performance.
What address is on the Senior's Expert plaque?
Nice to see the Overstall soundbox.
I now have his Aluminium diaphragm spinning equipment, and hopefully will get use of a lathe to produce a few, sometime in the future.
Please put me on that list.
More pictures please.

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Steve
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by Steve »

The 'Overstall' reproduction is really a clone of an EMG, given that Expert never made a finger guard like that. I wonder why then he chose to not nickel plate it. The bare brass does immediately make you think of Expert but the trained eye quickly informs the brain that it's an EMG copy you're looking at.

100 hours work? My question would be simply why go to that extent to make one when I should imagine the originals were not exactly impossible to get hold of?

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chunnybh
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by chunnybh »

I've seen several EMG soundboxes that are not plated.
I'd like to see more pictures of the Overstall , especially the back.
The interesting thing about the Overstall is the spring placement.
I've never seen that until last week on ebay.

Image

Perhaps that is an Overstall too. What 6 springs?
I for one am glad he made them, I just wish he had marked them so we would know for sure that, that is what they are.

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Steve
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Re: HMV meets EMG

Post by Steve »

No one should be fooled by anyone attempting to pass off a soundbox made by Overstall as a genuine EMG / Expert soundbox. He appears, perhaps mercifully, to have made them very different.

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