EMGs - Who sells them?

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
syncopeter
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by syncopeter »

Let me as a relative outsider (I'm from Holland) just confirm that this ring really exists and also that they stole part of the inheritance of one the most kind and honest dealers I've ever met. He helped me buy a huge collection out of an estate and didn't charge a single penny for that. Unlike some of the 'major' dealers, who will find a totally original rare machine, take the most valubale parts and sell it on as 'with period modifications. So I'm afraid I have to agree with GMEMG,even though I've never even met him and have noc other connection with him at all, Apart from our shared interest in old machines and music.

brianu
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by brianu »

right. but the uk is hardly the only place one can find dealers who part out otherwise complete machines and then sell the remnants with replacement parts or in some similar way disassemble and destroy something original just to maximize their profit margin.

what I and others I've spoken to don't understand is all the vague allegations about this ring of uk dealers who steal collectors' estates or rig auctions or
whatever... I mean, there's no shortage in the world as well of antique dealers who manipulate auctions, double-cross each other or anyone else, or work back channels to be the first buyer with an offer at a recently available, or soon to be available, collection or estate before it becomes publicly advertised.

and I guess, really, it just seems kind of silly, if not cliche and petty, the notion that a small group of old men are secretly pulling all of the strings behind a nationwide (if not international) market... for, of all things, old record players.

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Steve
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by Steve »

and I guess, really, it just seems kind of silly, if not cliche and petty, the notion that a small group of old men are secretly pulling all of the strings behind a nationwide (if not international) market... for, of all things, old record players.
It might seem petty, silly or even untrue to you, Brian, but let me assure you it isn't that at all. I and many others have witnessed these goings-on for many years and THE RING does certainly exist. As for them being 'old men' well that's debatable! No, some of these dealers have been doing this since they left university in their early 20's! In other words they've never had a 'proper job' LOL!

I do agree though that it's hard to believe why they should be chasing old record players when there must be much more financially lucrative material out there to screw people out of. It is mind bogglingly daft but TRUE nevertheless!

I did tell one of these dealers he should quit gramophones and sell dodgy second-hand cars instead. Maybe he listened because I haven't seen or heard anything of him since! :monkey: Or more likely, the money has evaporated from even the 'high-end' stuff so he's probably focusing somewhere else at the moment.

brianu
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by brianu »

the way people talk about these guys or describe them - the ring - makes it all sound so ominous, when really, as you just pointed out, they just seem like a group of small-time used-car-salesmen-type crooks. it's just strange nevertheless their choice of markets to control - antique phonographs/gramophones/etc. and it's odd as well how they seem to have, based on what I've heard, so effectively dominated that market (or is it that they've just been the most effective ones at marketing or advertising themselves as the go-to people such that, when machines surface, the owners tend to hear of them as the people who are buying and so just reach out to them?).

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Steve
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by Steve »

so effectively dominated that market (or is it that they've just been the most effective ones at marketing or advertising themselves as the go-to people such that, when machines surface, the owners tend to hear of them as the people who are buying and so just reach out to them?).
I think you're partly right there. That has definitely got SOMETHING to do with it but there's also the not-so-small matter of the size of the UK itself. Being a small-ish island does allow dealers who 'link up' with each other to cover a lot of ground very quickly. As these things are so specialized it starts to make some sense as to how they do it so well. Most antique dealers will ignore gramophones. In 22 years I can count how many machines I've spotted in general shops on one hand. Even then they are mostly poor portables or uninteresting table machines.

Garret
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by Garret »

I really didn't mean to open up a can of worms, but am just wondering if there's an honest someone that can be trusted to sell these machines for a reasonable amount without having to order from Japan.

Thoughts?

brianu
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by brianu »

Garret wrote:I really didn't mean to open up a can of worms, but am just wondering if there's an honest someone that can be trusted to sell these machines for a reasonable amount without having to order from Japan.

Thoughts?

hasn't this thread answered your question? (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

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Steve
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by Steve »

I really didn't mean to open up a can of worms, but am just wondering if there's an honest someone that can be trusted to sell these machines for a reasonable amount without having to order from Japan.
Well it depends on what 'reasonable' means firstly, but to put everything into some context and perspective, EMG's are really very rarely on the open market anyway but when they do appear at auction they will almost always sell for the 'going rate' which you will probably not consider to be very cheap ie £4000 upwards. The buyers are not usually dealers in this case unless they are buying on commission for a private collector. As for the question of there being anyone 'honest' selling EMG's, well again, the problem is not whether the dealers selling them are honest but simply more the case that the dealers aren't the people who normally have them for sale to begin with. Apart from rare private sales, there isn't anyone specifically selling EMG's out of the Uk anymore. There was a time when there arguably was such a person but he preferred to do face-to-face business and / or sell to his 'friends'. You also had to pass the EMG Ownership Test to ascertain your worthiness for such a prestigious machine! :lol:

It's probably going to be easier for you to deal with Japan. Maybe you'll pick up an HMV 202/3 whilst you're at it! ;)

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Valecnik
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by Valecnik »

Isn't "the ring" in any hobby simply a small group of people who;
- spend a lot of time with the hobby
- therefore among the most knowledgeable
- have the valuable stuff and/or
- know what it's worth
- have the money and are the most willing and able to spend it
- and, for the above reasons, tend to trade mostly amongst themselves?

There's certainly such a group of North American collectors/dealer and to an extent it's a global group.

I don't begrudge them their knowledge and success or find them unfriendly. My heart might sink though from time to time when I'm eyeing something at an auction and see one of them looking at it. I know I'm sunk! :(

gramophoneshane
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Re: EMGs - Who sells them?

Post by gramophoneshane »

Oh boy :roll:

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