Expert Junior

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
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Orchorsol
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Expert Junior

Post by Orchorsol »

Following a request to post about my machines - this is my E.M. Ginn Expert Junior. I am the third owner – the first two were successive generations of the same family, father and son, in Winchelsea on the East Sussex coast, and it was thought to have moved house only once in its life before the family finally sold it. It has a Collaro electric motor and probably dates from the late 1930s. For those unfamiliar with these machines - the Junior has a 24" diameter horn, larger then the Minor but smaller than the Senior.

It came with the cabinet/stand it was originally sold with, and various accessories (packets of Davey fibre needles, desiccating jar, EMG record brush etc) but the soundbox was missing, so I used Meltropes for a while – they can perform quite well, but are nowhere near as good as the Experts with sensitive rebuilding and tuning.

After a while I managed to buy a really good four-spring Expert soundbox – the increase in bass, detail and effortless unstrained power/warmth over the Meltropes, despite having overhauled those too, was phenomenal.

Later still, by an incredible stroke of luck, the original two-spring Expert soundbox actually turned up – bizarrely, fitted to an unremarkable tabletop gramophone offered for sale in the same locality. This machine had been amongst assorted junk in the garage at the same property. It seemed as if the soundbox “wanted” to find its way back!

So here are some photos. The counterweight, made by Ginn’s son Joe, is an excellent design and highly effective. The large weight sitting on the motorboard is a ‘stop’ to prevent expensive damage to the diaphragm if the needle escapes the end groove and shoots across the label.
Attachments
IMG_1930.JPG
IMG_1928.JPG
IMG_1919.JPG
IMG_1917.JPG
AB Expert motorboard.jpg
IMG_2150.JPG
IMG_2147.JPG
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

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mjbramham
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by mjbramham »

What a good story, and a lovely machine! Any chance at all of a video? The cat seems fond of it too!

Frankia
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by Frankia »

Lovely photos Orchorsol! I love drooling over Experts and EMGs! A counterweight is high on my list of wants for a good while now. Yours looks in very good nick.
How do you find the Davey bamboos? I've often wondered how they'd sound/get through a record compared to others. I have two kinds of bamboo here but neither are great at lasting to the end of a record. The actual reproduction that they give on orchestral records is fuller and more rounded than thorns, but of course orchestral record are often the ones hardest on needles.
And I never thought of solving the careering soundbox nightmare as you have. The best solutions are the simple ones.
Another thing - I love the colour of the turntable material. Is it original?

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Orchorsol
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by Orchorsol »

mjbramham wrote:What a good story, and a lovely machine! Any chance at all of a video? The cat seems fond of it too!
I'm moving towards posting on YouTube - need a video camera and then to work out how to get really good sound (via a quality condenser mike) married up to the video. One of these days I will get there...

Yes, amazingly my cat really does seem to enjoy the gramophones, even though the Expert and EMG are very loud in my modest-sized house!
Frankia wrote:Lovely photos Orchorsol! I love drooling over Experts and EMGs! A counterweight is high on my list of wants for a good while now. Yours looks in very good nick.
How do you find the Davey bamboos? I've often wondered how they'd sound/get through a record compared to others. I have two kinds of bamboo here but neither are great at lasting to the end of a record. The actual reproduction that they give on orchestral records is fuller and more rounded than thorns, but of course orchestral record are often the ones hardest on needles.
And I never thought of solving the careering soundbox nightmare as you have. The best solutions are the simple ones.
Another thing - I love the colour of the turntable material. Is it original?
Well spotted, a red Davey! I have a large selection of fibres, and can't yet tell a huge amount of difference between types - now that both machines are really well set up, at some point I'll do some reasonably controlled tests between original Daveys, Ginns, Astras, HMVs and 'no-names' plus new ones: some from a fellow enthusiast (doped and un-doped) and some susudake (hardened bamboo from "hmv203" on eBay). Suffice to say that in general they aren't as tolerant of record wear as thorns, even slight wear. I do use them on some records, maybe 5-10% of the time. Agreed, the more 'complex' the recording the harder it is on the point... At times I've managed 8 or 9 sides though.

Yes, I believe the turntable covering is original!

Here's a photo inside the drawer of the cabinet. My little Aladdin's cave. :D
Attachments
IMG_2152.JPG
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

Frankia
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by Frankia »

That's an enviable Aladdin's cave. You've done very well on amassing all those different types of bamboo as well. If your enthusiast friend is into selling any of his bamboos I'd be interested.
I'm afraid my dog doesn't share your cat's love of culture. As soon as I start winding she makes for the door!
Anyway lovely photos. Thanks for the trouble.

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Orchorsol
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by Orchorsol »

Frankia wrote:That's an enviable Aladdin's cave. You've done very well on amassing all those different types of bamboo as well. If your enthusiast friend is into selling any of his bamboos I'd be interested.
I'm afraid my dog doesn't share your cat's love of culture. As soon as I start winding she makes for the door!
Anyway lovely photos. Thanks for the trouble.
No trouble, a pleasure!

I don't think he sells them generally, but some of his can be bought here at present http://www.camcentre.co.uk/fibre-repoin ... p-186.html

I might try making some and running some experiments doping them at some point in future...
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

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OrthoSean
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by OrthoSean »

Yes, thanks for the photos! I'm not so well educated on EMGs as I'd like to be. I have the Mark IX, which I'm told is an earlier one that I absolutely love. Just out of curiosity, I measured the bell on my horn and its 23 inches across, I'm not sure why, but I always thought they had smaller horns (and I thought mine WAS smaller than 23 inches!). Mine has an electric Garrard motor which I ended up having completely rewired as the original literally fell apart when I went to take it out. It took me awhile to fins anyone that would even touch it and when I finally did, it cost me all of $40. Now hopefully it's good for the rest of my hopefully many years!

As I've said elsewhere, finding any EMG in the states is pretty much unheard of. This one was found by a fellow TMF member and I was able to convince him to sell it to me and I couldn't be happier. I've spent months "raising" the horn, it had sagged pretty severely over the years and I've managed to raise it about 10 inches so far safely with no cracks or stress, another large relief!

Mine came with a 2 spring reproducer as well which sounds phenomenal. I haven't really done much tinkering with it, but I did replace the gaskets and the rubber flange. As far as "tuning" one, there doesn't seem to be much to do except adjust the needle bar pivots although somebody (who?) had mentioned to me that originally there were leather washers someplace and mine doesn't have any. Is this true or am I imagining things? I do have to occasionally readjust the screws, but other than that, it's solid and a great performer. I can get up to 10 sides with a bamboo needle before repointing. I can't say I've had the same luck with cactus (NOS Peter Grey and Deccas), but I haven't used them much. I built my own little container using silica gel and cut up paper towels inside a small glass jar that seals tight and it certainly helped get better results with bamboo....

Here's the original thread about my very machine before I got it:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 11&t=11762

Sean

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Re: Expert Junior

Post by Frankia »

Ah yes, those are one of the two types I already have, the other being the susudake. If you ever do decide to experiment with doping, I'd be game to join the experiment by trying them out - though I insist we stick to gramophone needles!

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Re: Expert Junior

Post by chunnybh »

originally there were leather washers someplace
The first picture shows where the leather washers are placed. Between the spring. They are also placed on the three backplate screws. Another adjustment is to play with these three back screws, that is slightly adjusting the pressure of the gasket rubbers on the diaphragm leaving a minute gap between the main body and backplate.
Susudake is ~100 year old bamboo from the rafters of Japanese smoke houses (smoked fish). It's awfy expensive even for a small piece and is generally used to make holders or sheaths for Japanese swards. In my experience it offers more clear plays than any other bamboo. For cheaper alternative , I always look out for aged/old bamboo from junk shops and markets. A while ago I found some old bamboo flutes for peanuts and they have already lasted me years.
I'm very interested in finding out how the Astra needles perform.
That's a lovely Expert Junior and unique with the cabinet. I've seen several Expert Senior cabinets but never a Junior.

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OrthoSean
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Re: Expert Junior

Post by OrthoSean »

chunnybh wrote:The first picture shows where the leather washers are placed. Between the spring. They are also placed on the three backplate screws. Another adjustment is to play with these three back screws, that is slightly adjusting the pressure of the gasket rubbers on the diaphragm leaving a minute gap between the main body and backplate.
Thanks for that, I see them now! Somebody had replaced the back plate washers on mine with rubber instead of leather. Time to fashion some leather washers and start having some fun "tuning"!

Again, thanks! :)

Sean

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