One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

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2Bdecided
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One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by 2Bdecided »

Sadly it seems that these are worth far more "broken up".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171013170826

It was once a large cabinet built by The Expert Gramophone Company in 1956, with a Garrard 301 deck, Expert 78 pickup, Ortofon SPU12, Expert FM tuner, Expert pre-amplifier, and EL37 (KT66)-based power amplifier. It doesn't mention the loudspeaker.

Strange that the worship of something old (i.e. specific vale/tube technology, and specific turntables) should cause the destruction of the contemporary units it was part of.

I guess I'm equally guilty in a way. My Leak Stereo 20 sounds best when it's not used with the matching Leak Varislope / point one stereo pre-amp.

Cheers,
David.

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Orchorsol
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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by Orchorsol »

2Bdecided wrote:Sadly it seems that these are worth far more "broken up".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171013170826

It was once a large cabinet built by The Expert Gramophone Company in 1956, with a Garrard 301 deck, Expert 78 pickup, Ortofon SPU12, Expert FM tuner, Expert pre-amplifier, and EL37 (KT66)-based power amplifier. It doesn't mention the loudspeaker.

Strange that the worship of something old (i.e. specific vale/tube technology, and specific turntables) should cause the destruction of the contemporary units it was part of.

I guess I'm equally guilty in a way. My Leak Stereo 20 sounds best when it's not used with the matching Leak Varislope / point one stereo pre-amp.

Cheers,
David.
What a pity this ensemble has been destroyed. Trouble is, components like Garrard 301s although fairly common are worth megabucks, as they still perform fantastically well - but to do so they need more carefully designed mounting arrangements - at the sad cost of history and posterity like this.
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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by emgcr »

I have the impression that this item was broken up many decades ago.

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by chunnybh »

Here is a complete one I found not so long ago.
Image
Image

2Bdecided
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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by 2Bdecided »

Orchorsol wrote:What a pity this ensemble has been destroyed. Trouble is, components like Garrard 301s although fairly common are worth megabucks, as they still perform fantastically well - but to do so they need more carefully designed mounting arrangements - at the sad cost of history and posterity like this.
Yes, it's true that some of those parts can only give of their best when differently partnered.

It's funny how some equipment attains legendary status, while other very similar stuff fails to, or only does much later when people finally realise it's essentially the same.

It's nice to hear it all together though. I can listen to parts of a 1960s set-up and think "we haven't improved at all in 50 years" because it's essentially as good as it needs to be - but almost any full 1960s set-up (no cheating with newer parts) isn't quite that good. It usually has colouration that you can't avoid except by using something newer. Weak points are sometimes, but not always, cartridge, pre-amp, and speakers.
chunnybh wrote:Here is a complete one I found not so long ago.
Wow - are those the speakers either side? What kind of design are they? With lids?! Or are they something completely different? That cabinet is so of its time!

Thank you for sharing those photos.


A thought on a hand made gramopone company making radiograms: some of the standard valve/tube circuits of the time depended on component values being carefully matched, because a few components were absolutely critical to the performance of the circuit (e.g. in reducing distortion when perfectly matched). Hence it's quite possible that a hand-made / cottaage approach could deliver measurably better performance. Some small English hi-fi companies still work like this to this day (e.g. LFD). The more common approach these days (with entire circuits on one chip) is to design the circuit to be far more complicated, but such that the exact value any one component doesn't matter (so long as it's within a broad tollerance) becaust the design is resistent to component variations and self-correcting. Of course resistors and capacitors individually chosen in 1956 to be certain exact values are going to be way off by now. Some people will know to replace them with high quality modern equivalents, but few will understand where the values, or ratios of values, need to be matched exactly by going through a box of 50 resistors with an accurate multimeter and picking the two that match most closely for those critical parts of the circuit.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by emgcr »

chunnybh wrote:Here is a complete one I found not so long ago.
Extremely interesting---may we hear it please ?

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by estott »

That is not something that could fit into most homes - if the other one was of that size and appearance I might understand why it was broken up. Similarly, there are people on this forum who would look at a VV-405 and say "I don't have any room for a console - and it isn't even Orthophonic!"

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by chunnybh »

I don't have it yet as it is being shipped. As for hearing it, well that is going to take a while for me to get it working safely. I am hoping to keep it complete as my main electric system.
The speakers are Expert reflex type with what looks like a diffuser panel. I have come across corner reflex speakers before which work well but not like this. Expert did make some with a fixed lid and four open sides, so this must have been something similar.
Image
As already said, these vintage systems need tweaking, matching and upgrading to perform as they once did. Most of the unit is made of, off the shelf parts and even the amps I am sure used generic parts but were hand matched and assembled.
I am guessing the KT66 amp was from a mono system and this one looks like a stereo system based on push pull design using EL84 tubes. It looks very much like 60's HH Scott amps which used to be very affordable but nowadays are fetching high prices.

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by emgcr »

Well done Chunny---you have what must now be a very rare beast and I, for one, am pleased that it is now in safe, knowledgable and appreciative hands. Quite a find---is there an interesting story attached to the discovery ? The diffuser/deflector principle is fascinating and we shall all be interested in your thoughts/experience in due course.

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Re: One less Expert Gramophone radiogram out there

Post by Orchorsol »

emgcr wrote:Well done Chunny---you have what must now be a very rare beast and I, for one, am pleased that it is now in safe, knowledgable and appreciative hands. Quite a find---is there an interesting story attached to the discovery ? The diffuser/deflector principle is fascinating and we shall all be interested in your thoughts/experience in due course.
Wonderful to see this Chunny, and I echo Graham's comments!

I see the amplifier units on eBay have bid up to a huge price already...
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications: http://www.burmesecolourneedles.com

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe4DNb ... TPE-zTAJGg?

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