Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV 460

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Steve
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by Steve »

They evidently don't grow on trees in Houston.
The floor-standing variant doesn't grow on trees in the UK either! In 23 years I've only ever seen one and that was at auction at a time when I didn't have quite enough money in my pocket to buy it and the diaphragm was also pretty wrecked. Sadly, that same day, neither did any of the dealers have much interest in it and therefore I might have got it quite cheap compared to normal days. Indeed one dealer even "stepped to one side" and said to me "Well, this has got to be for you, surely? No one else can make much sense of it" (referring to the diaphragm state). In hindsight I should have bought that one as years later I purchased a tatty table model with a perfect original diaphragm and could have simply combined the two. Oh well.

snallast
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by snallast »

Well thankyou! It does sound like a very good idea. I will try finding this paper somehow I'm in Seville, Spain - as the next step is fixing the tears in the diaphragm - it does rattle a bit and I'm certain it has do do with the tears.

It is really an amazing machine! After Stevens advice I've taken a lot more weight off the needle and it now weighs almost like a modern electric pickup / but still sounds pretty good, also the turntable does'nt slow down with very worn records like before.

As for the ones that "got away" :cry: - I guess we've all been there (hurts!!) but hopefully there are always more in store... I saw one for sale in Florida about a week ago I think it was, a dealer. As I recall it looked a bit frayed around the edges on the diaphragm and was quite high-priced, but then this model is rather scarce I suppose especially in the US, I read somewhere that some 600 were made in oak but about 400 were returned to the factory, which would leave about 200 that were'nt converted to the next model and that was in 1925. How many of those have survived the second world war and the rest of it...? But chances of one turning up in a yardsale these days must be slim. I envy you these great shows and fairs that you have in the US where you can actually SEE what you're getting! This machine I bought on the internet and was really fooled (I wrote about that dealer here on the forum) by fake pictures and it was a wreck then.

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Steve
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by Steve »

s the next step is fixing the tears in the diaphragm - it does rattle a bit and I'm certain it has do do with the tears.
No, it's not the tears that make it rattle, it's the lack of compliance of the spring block suspension of the stylus bar and the ball joints at each end. The state of the paper itself doesn't make as much difference to the sound as some might think.

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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by soundgen »

Lucius1958 wrote:
snallast wrote: maybe glueing a thin stiff paper on the backside molded to fit the area?
Using heavy paper might affect the diaphragm's sound. Eric Reiss recommends using the sort of fine tissue used by book repairers (the type known as kizukishi would be a good choice); you tear out a small piece of tissue (the ragged edges will blend better than a cleanly cut edge), wet it with wheat paste, and lay it over the tear, using a fine soft brush to smooth the patch down. If you do this carefully, the repair should be nearly invisible.

Having done a good bit of book repair in my time, I would endorse this method.

Bill
Rizla ( cigarette ) papers work a treat !

snallast
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by snallast »

Steve wrote:
s the next step is fixing the tears in the diaphragm - it does rattle a bit and I'm certain it has do do with the tears.
No, it's not the tears that make it rattle, it's the lack of compliance of the spring block suspension of the stylus bar and the ball joints at each end. The state of the paper itself doesn't make as much difference to the sound as some might think.
Can this be adjusted then? I can see that the wooden rod goes into ball which is supported on both sides (at the bottom by the needle) - the top part of the rod I can not see because of the "spider" structure on the backside of the diaphragm... :? this IS one complicated mechanism!

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Steve
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by Steve »

Can this be adjusted then?
Not really but if you are removing the diaphragm from its support frame and threaded wire, as per my earlier post, it is worth dropping some hot melted beeswax into the ball socket(s) while you have the opportunity. This does help remove unwanted resonances but the springs are the biggest problem and I have not yet managed to adjust a set. That is why a good playing diaphragm is a keeper - they are not all good today and very difficult to "improve".

snallast
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by snallast »

Thanks for all the good advice. Before removing the diaphragm, wire and all, I'll certainly have to take one really deep breath... you don't by any chance do these renovations professionally? To be honest I'm not sure I can do it and get away with it. It must be very different if you've saved 20 machines already and know all the quirks along the road...

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Steve
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by Steve »

you don't by any chance do these renovations professionally?
No, I don't. I'm just a hobbyist like you. However, if you have any problems let me know and I'll try to help.

snallast
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Re: Need advice restoring frame of Lumiere diaphragm on HMV

Post by snallast »

Well thanks!! I feel I've come a long way from the starting point /wreck/ to where I'm at now, a lot thanks to good advice! I'm really enjoying the gramophone and lately I'm using cactus needles on it, sounds good, I pick 'em off the orange and lemontree shoots.

This is definitely a long term project, for sure I'll be back with questions, thanks again!

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