Trademark £300 !

[epigramophone]

This machine appeared in my local saleroom, and as soon as I saw the advertisement it was obvious that the pre-sale estimate needed to be increased by a factor of 10.

I attended the preview, and being well known to the auctioneers was allowed to examine the machine. The presence of a Gramophone Company transfer WITHOUT the word "Limited", and the Maiden Lane address indicated an 1899 date. In my book that makes it a Trade Mark model and NOT a New Style No.3.

The original leather carrying case had done a good job of protecting the contents, but had suffered badly in the process. The internal partitions were missing, as were the two straps which fastened the buckles, and much of the stitching had disintegrated.

The machine itself was original even down to the container for the Clark-Johnson soundbox, which was in need of repair. The motor ran, but needed a service at the very least.

The Berliners were a typical mixture of band selections, patriotic songs, ballads and numbers from shows of the time.

Despite energetic bidding in the salerom and on the internet, it sold to a telephone bidder for £3500, or £4256 including buyers premium of 18% + VAT.

[soundgen]

I'm sure you all must be aware of this site , but I was astonished when I saw these early machines and their number !


http://www.mrgramophone.com/index.cgi?m ... ry_gateway

[Starkton]

I'm sure you all must be aware of this site

This type of presentation is less than ideal. The collection looks like a crowded warehouse. It needs much more space. Are the gramophones and phonographs ever played?

[Steve]

All you had to do was check the auction house archive to learn this lot sold for 3500 pounds plus premium. It is not a "trade-mark" in the true sense. In fact, it is a much later model of an "Improved" Berliner Gramophone. I should add that the machine came with 30+ records, carrying case, reproducer box and other extra's. These UK and European model's just don't command the high dollars the US model's do.

So £4200 isn't "high dollars" in your book? The reproducer looked reproduction to me or at least re-nickel-plated.

I attended the preview, and being well known to the auctioneers was allowed to examine the machine. The presence of a Gramophone Company transfer WITHOUT the word "Limited", and the Maiden Lane address indicated an 1899 date. In my book that makes it a Trade Mark model and NOT a New Style No.3.

You're right to say it isn't a New Style No. 3. The two machines are completely different (check my NS3 shown here in the archives) but it also isn't a Trademark in the STRICTEST sense of the word.

It does not have the cam brake but the slightly later bolt brake. To my mind, it is therefore a "Style No. 5". A perfectly good machine sold by auctioneers with not enough interest in it to even correct the orientation of the soundbox, let alone their estimates!

As well as my NS3 I now also have a mahogany NS4, both with original nickel plated zinc horns. Somewhere hidden from sight I also have the best reproduction Trademark in existence. One collector examined it very closely for half an hour before concluding that "the horn could be repro". He laughed when I told him the whole machine was, including the motor! It is for this very reason that I would never buy an "authentic Trademark" unseen. There are too many reproduction machines and parts to ever be fully sure of what you're getting without rigorous personal inspection beforehand. I wouldn't trust any Trademark on eBay.

[soundgen]

I'm sure you all must be aware of this site

This type of presentation is less than ideal. The collection looks like a crowded warehouse. It needs much more space. Are the gramophones and phonographs ever played?[/quote

I wish it were my warehouse !

[mcgravy]

Here's one of our Berliner's. My wife and I bought this at an estate auction awhile back. The estate was auctioned after the death of the 91 year old grandson of the original owner of the Berliner. It included 33 Berliner records and 8 zonophone records. Some of the records had the original owners initials scratched on the back of them. The only thing missing as far as I know is It's original leather elbow. Of course it would have been nice if it had also had one of those neat boxes for the records.

[epigramophone]

I would be the last person to criticise the auctioneers estimates. As reported in a previous thread, I had a very successful time there a few weeks ago .

A red leather HMV102 for £40, a blue one for £42 and an oak 130 for £28. In theory I might have added a Trade Mark for a bargain price, but this sale was better publicised and attracted a lot of interest.

I can't help wondering whether all these machines had come from the same source.

[gramophone78]

Steve is very correct. The 1898 Berliner is the model used by Barraud for his painting "His Master's Voice". Here is my US 1898. Which is as close as I can get to a "real" trade-mark Berliner. Steve has already mentioned the brake issue.There is however one more piece of info regarding "brakes". The early production '98 had a slightly different brake. What makes it different is.....the large nickel disc is held onto the case by two screws. The brake arm is riveted to the disc (like the '97 but with the side bolt lever). The later '98 brake is "all" held to the case by one central screw. Just as you see on mine AND as you see in the painting.

[Valecnik]

I'm sure you all must be aware of this site

This type of presentation is less than ideal. The collection looks like a crowded warehouse. It needs much more space. Are the gramophones and phonographs ever played?[/quote

I wish it were my warehouse !

Agreed, I'd love that warehouse too. Pictured there is just a small fraction of his collection.

[gramophone78]

In that "warehouse" of machine's you can see a Berliner hand-wind. It has a slightly later electric motor attached to it. Trying to look like the electric model Berliner pictured at the time. There was also a "spring" powered version pictured (1896) You may note there are three holes in the flywheel that were also introduced that year.
Both the '94 & '95 production models had a solid constructed flywheel (like mine). To date....I am not aware of either "factory" versions surviving. They may have never been made???. There is an electric "prototype" (pre-production 1894)in the Smith. However, it is not complete.