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 Post subject: EMG Register to assist dating and EMG/Expert synopsis.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:38 am 
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Victor II
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Location: Hampshire, England.
As far as I know, there is no list of EMG manufacturing numbers available anywhere.

In order to assist in dating, I have therefore recorded the numbers stamped on the deck-boards of the gramophones which I have seen and find that No. 174 is the earliest---a Mk Xa with wooden tonearm rest. The latest is No. 2116---Mk IX which, because of its broken horn, can be positively dated to 8th July 1948 as a result of the newspaper used in its construction. A great many gramophones do not have any numbers stamped on them which presumably points to replacement deck-boards or, in the case of earlier models, no distinguishing numbers ever having been stamped at all ?

The whole area of research is very uncertain and poorly catalogued, thus it would be most interesting if enthusiasts would like to add to this post in due course and begin to complete the larger picture. I would be happy to keep a Register of contributions which will assist us all in dating. Such details ought to include all known history, full current technical details and photographs please.

The attachment below gives details of the Register so far.

I do not know when the numbering system was started but further definite information and evidence will be more than welcome.

The undermentioned details are taken from Frank’s definitive book “The EMG Story”.

Models were introduced in the following years:

Mk VII------------1928 (July)

Mk VIII-----------1928 ? Replaced by Mk IX.

Mk IV-------------1929 (Autumn) Discontinued in 1946.

Mk X--------------1929 (March)

Mk Xa-------------1930 (November)

Mk IX--------------1932

Mk Xb-------------1933

Mk Xb Oversize—1934

Additionally, it is extremely interesting to note Frank’s estimates of manufacturing numbers (also from the book) in tabular from:

Mk Xb--------------------50 (Including Oversize)

Mk Xa--------------------75

Mk X--------------------150

Mk IX-------------------350

Mk VIII-----------------300

MK VII------------------100

Magnaphones----------100

Others--------------------25

Total all models-----1,500 (Acoustic)

Frank states that these figures are educated guesses (based on Balfour Davey’s memory later in life) and should not be taken as gospel but it is interesting to compare the total of 1,500 machines with the last recorded and confirmed number of 2116 for July 1948. Accounting for the difference can only be conjecture at this stage but might point to numbers for different models not being consecutive ? The situation is not helped by the fact that the ivorine “armchair” plates designed by Reggie Brayne in February 1933 were available to any customers---past or present---on request !

I have also attached photographs in support of the 10 initial Register constituents.


Attachments:
File comment: EMG Gramophone Register.
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Last edited by emgcr on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: EMG Dating Register.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:57 am 
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Victor II
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Posts: 480
Location: Hampshire, England.
Continued.....2.....


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Dating Register.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:07 am 
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Victor II
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Posts: 480
Location: Hampshire, England.
Continued.....3.....


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Dating Register.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:18 am 
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Victor II
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Location: Hampshire, England.
Continued.....4.....


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Dating Register.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:53 am 
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Victor II
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Location: Hampshire, England.
Whilst looking at the subject generally, I thought it might be helpful to tabulate the following details regarding Expert---also distilled from "The EMG story".

1930 (March)--------Ginn leaves EMG

1930 (May)----------D Phillips transfers to Expert.

1930 (June)---------Expert commences trading.

1930 (July)----------First Expert Senior.

1930 (Sept)----------First Expert Junior.

1930 (December)---First Expert Minor.

1930/1/2-------------147/125 Experts sold in years ½.

1932------------------First Expert Cadet.

1934------------------Expert Audio Player.

1934 (Summer)-----687 Experts produced in first 4 years of trading.

1934------------------First All Range.

I have never come across any serial numbers stamped on an Expert gramophone case or deck-board. It would be good to know if anyone else has a different experience ? Tonearms are numbered under the deck flange (as are those of EMG) but I am not sure if they have any particular relevance to dating.


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Register to assist dating.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Victor II
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Location: Hampshire, England.
A couple more quick reference tabulations:

EMG

1922----------------------1 Vernon Gardens, Montpelier Road, Brighton.

1924/29------------------267 High Holborn, London WCI

1929 to 10/4/48--------11 Grape Street, London WC2

1948/1967---------------6 Newman Steet, London WI

30/10/67----------------26 Soho Square, London WI

1980---------------------END---Voluntary liquidation.


EXPERT

1930 (June) to 1933----55 Rathbone Place, Oxford Street, London WI

1933/36-----------------10A Soho Square, London WI

1936/39-----------------64 Frith Street, London WI

During & Post war-----Ingerthorpe, Great North Road, London N2

17/2/59-----------------Death of Ellis Michael Ginn (born 1899)


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Register to assist dating and EMG/Expert synopsis.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Victor III
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What a fine and useful thing to be setting about Graham!

Here's my original EMG Mk Xb conversion of a former Orchorsol gramophone. Its stamped number is 817.

For the interest and information of our Stateside friends - back in the day, as well as supplying most of their instruments with their own design of base unit (as per most surviving examples), EMG would also sometimes convert customers' own cabinets to order.


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Register to assist dating and EMG/Expert synopsis.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Victor III
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An afterthought Graham - you'll remember (but worth recording here) that my Xb horn is unusual in having the earlier aluminium section with the narrower "knuckle", as found on Xa horns.

This might indicate that it was one of the first Xb horns made, and likewise (but more tentative still) the machine might be a very early one. If so, the serial number 817 could perhaps be dated to 1933.

But all uncertain conjecture, of course!


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Register to assist dating and EMG/Expert synopsis.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:21 pm 
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Victor II
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I would think 1933 is most likely as it would appear logical that there might well have been a spare Xa casting or two around at the change-over period onto which the new Xb 29 ½ inch bell could have been grafted. If 817 is indeed 1933, this could tie in quite well with my Xb Oversize---number 1020---perhaps made in 1934 ? If every serial number means an actual machine (by no means certain) it might be that about 200 machines were produced annually (on average) over the ten years 1930/1939. That would conveniently show a difference in serial numbers 1020-817 = 203 machines. However, as you say, conjecture at this stage.

Does the ivorine plate have the Grape Street address or just the trade name ? Has the motor always been electrically driven do you think ? Might we have a photo of the deck-board set-up please ? Any other history worth recording here ?

Many thanks for the details---superb photo---magnificent instrument !


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 Post subject: Re: EMG Register to assist dating and EMG/Expert synopsis.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:07 am 
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Victor IV
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Looking at Graham's tables above, makes me appreciate one good reason why the name "EMG" is synonymous with these giant machines, whilst the name "Expert" is almost exclusively relegated to the tiny circles of collectors who actually own one.

EMG existed for nearly 60 years whilst Expert was effectively defunct within 15.


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