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 Post subject: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Victor III
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In an unmarked gramophone. Lovely little cast motor. Runs nicely as well, for a single spring motor in a cabinet suited for a much larger piece of machinery!


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:49 am 
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Victor O
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Your Union phonograph was made by Beka-Record G.M.B.H. in Berlin early 1920’s. 1925 Beka became a subsidiary of the Carl Lindström A.G.-group which was sold to the Columbia Graphophone Company in 1926.
Beka was a major German off-brand manufacturer with a broad variety of machines. Union(single spring) and Mars(double spring) motors were used in the external horn and small internal horn models.
Could you post more pictures of your machine? What soundbox have you got?
Here is a picture of the Union motor from the 1921-22 catalog and a picture of my Union 62 phonograph.


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Last edited by Jaso on Tue May 08, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:38 am 
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Victor VI
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Thank you! I've asked the same question before with no answer. My machine is the same as yours- with the exception of the arm being 1 piece with the vertical movement at the back. My machine had a Pathé soundbox when I got it, I've replaced it with a Parlophon for laterals.


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:24 am 
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Victor V
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I honestly never thought I'd see another Union motor-powered Gramophone. Below is a photo of my Hungarian dealer sold Gramophone of the OP. I bought it from Wyatt -- MicaMonster -- a couple of years ago.

I was fortunate to have been contacted by Carl Lindstroem through a conversation on Facebook conducted on the "ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH ENTHUSIASTS" page, in regard to my query for information about my "green-horned Hungarian Gramophone." This took place two years ago on the 16th of this month (strange coincidence!). Our correspondence was on the topic of "Union" motors, and specifically this Gramophone -- shortly after I posted a picture of it there.

Here's what Carl told me verbatim (in red):

“Beautiful Gramophone! I like green horns more than red or blue. Your horn-type was released for Christmas 1913. Little shops bought parts from all over Europe and created their own machines. Is there any number or sign on your motor? Here's another Gramophone with your horn from December 1913 [see advert image below]. This motor was used at JOHANN ARLETT´S "UNION" GRAMOPHONES, which were made in Vienna and also sold separately in parts to little stores and bicycle shops which made their own Gramophones.

I've often seen them here and at markets in Hungary, so your Gramophone could be an original “UNION”. The back bracket and tonearm also seem to be the same like ARLETT has used on his Gramophones until ca. 1919. And from 1908 there was a "UNION" JOHANN ARLETT Grammophon - Import House: WIEN V., WIENERSTR. 28. They also made records."


Of the tag on my machine, he said:

"GIEGLER FERENCZ Instrumentenbauer ESZTERGOM - He made violins and pianos until he died in 1943. He also sold Gramophones (Maybe for better income). That's all I know about him - not much, but better than nothing. :P


He also posted two images from the link above, but sadly I only saved one [Carl's source: HTTP://GRAMMOPHON-PLATTEN.DE/E107_FILES ... __4014.JPG]:
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My Hungarian "Union" powered Gramophone, next to my BKT:
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The dealer "tag" mounted on my Gramophone:
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I'd love to see more!

Best regards to all,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:25 am 
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Victor O
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Guys, could you post more close up pictures of the machine details like tonearms, back brackets, soundboxes etc.? My Union 62 came with an “Exact”-soundbox. It is suffering from a badly swollen mazak front bezel. I’m gonna re-manufacture a new bezel out of solid brass and then nickel plate it. I suspect that my soundbox is original as it has very similar text&font compared to the models in the 1921-22 catalog. According to the catalog, there was also a Grand Spezialdose available for Pathé system, so that might have been also a legitimite soundbox to the Beka machines.


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Last edited by Jaso on Tue May 08, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:47 am 
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Victor V
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Certainly. I'm not overly proud of the condition of the back bracket, tonearm and plated bits, but I still like it. :)

I hope these help (just click on the image to expand it to full-size).

-Fran

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Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Victor O
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Fran, it seems to me that your ”Hungarian phonograph” is a legitimite Beka made Union model. Although I have never seen a Hebrophon style tonearm mounted in a Beka machine before. Maybe some sort of upgrade? In the 1921-22 catalog there is a picture of a model 64 having the same style german made tin horn and the Grand Symphonic Beka soundbox. In the same catalog there are whopping 24 different phonograph models! I think both Johann Arlett and Giegler Ferencz were only distributors and did not take part in putting machines together from parts. The Gramonella No.1 and Sermonette 262 look to me very much as badge engineered siblings. In fact Gramola is a 1924 established record shop based in Vienna, Austria. It started as a distributor of HMV-products named Gramola for the local market. So gramonella models might have been targeted at the customers familiar with HMV-Gramola?


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Victor V
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Jaso wrote:
Fran, it seems to me that your ”Hungarian phonograph” is a legitimite Beka made Union model. Although I have never seen a Hebrophon style tonearm mounted in a Beka machine before. Maybe some sort of upgrade? In the 1921-22 catalog there is a picture of a model 64 having the same style german made tin horn and the Grand Symphonic Beka soundbox. In the same catalog there are whopping 24 different phonograph models! I think both Johann Arlett and Giegler Ferencz were only distributors and did not take part in putting machines together from parts. The Gramonella No.1 and Sermonette 262 look to me very much as badge engineered siblings. In fact Gramola is a 1924 established record shop based in Vienna, Austria. It started as a distributor of HMV-products named Gramola for the local market. So gramonella models might have been targeted at the customers familiar with HMV-Gramola?

Thank you, Jaso for the additional information. I can't attest to the originality of this machine, this is how I bought it, and there may have been some alterations throughout its long history. The thing I like most about it are the weighted soundbox mount pivot, the horn, and especially the ornate Pine cabinet. I've always been intrigued by the European sensibilities of design, horn colors, and cabinetry accoutrements employed with even the lesser priced models.

I don't recall hearing the terms "Hebophon", or "Beka" before. I enjoy being educated on such things. Thank you! :)

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Victor O
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Fran, nice display of machines you got in the picture! 8-)
I also like that green horn. Has it got an incredibly good original paint or is it repainted?
Hebrophon Talking Machine company was founded by Otto Hebron in Leipzig. His machines used this unique tonearm construction. BTW the so called peacock pattern tin horns, very commonly found in lesser machines globally, were actually manufactured by Nirona, better known for their Nifty models and bicycle lamps etc. tinplate products with their own name.


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 Post subject: Re: UNION gramophone motor, who made it? (pic)
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Victor V
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Jaso, thank you for the kind words.

I'm convinced the finish on the horn is original. It's in amazing condition!

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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