HMV from Calcutta - what to do?

[snallast]

Just bought this gramophone, very cheaply, about 15 pounds. Anyhow, it´s surprising to find a machine from India in Sweden. I remember they had great sound so I´d like to restore it. It has the big double spring motor (nr 9 or 6 depending from where you look at the number) and it runs fine, just a bit of thumping so I´m going to have to take the springs out and clean them, I can do that.

The issues I don´t know how to deal with are: the HMV logo, which is still there, but peeling off. How can I save it? Any experience anyone? See photo - and then there´s the grill and grill cloth. Could that cloth be original? It certainly looks very old and I cannot see any marks of it having been changed. Although somehow the grill looks like it´s been sanded down a bit, it´s a lighter colour. The rest of the machine seems to have the original surface.

What cloth should I look for? The one that´s there cannot be saved.

Inside the machine there is a patent note - from 1925, but I should think this machine younger than that?

Another question is (see picture) the inside horn: it´s attached on the top, but although it has the holes for it it´s not been attached with screws at the bottom. Looks like it´s never been fastened there, no traces of anything in the box. Is this the way it should be?

My last question is about the soundbox: the nr 5A. Should I do anything to it or leave it be?

Well I´m thankful for any and all input and advice!

Snal

[Garret]

Snal,

I'm afraid I don't have any insight on how to save the finish, but this is a fascinating machine! This little gramophone has likely seen more of the planet than I have - to be made in Calcutta, sold in Burma, and then ending up in Sweden...! I'm sure some of the other forum posters will be able to offer you some good information on how best to preserve this gramophone.

Garret

[Steve Levi]

That is a fine looking gramophone! I am in states, so this is treat to see. As far as label, I would leave it. Someone smarter than me may be able to suggest a coating for that label to save from further peeling.

[CarlosV]

Interesting machine, with a rich history behind!

You can buy a good replacement grille cloth here http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Traditional-Radi ... SwPhdVNn3Z, but be aware that it is difficult to install properly, as it should be wrapped around in front of the chicken wire mesh. The cloth in the photo may look old but is not the original one: the other transportable HMVs I have that were made in India have the same grill cloth as the English ones.

I cannot access the horn of my 130 to check if there are screws at the bottom, I would have to remove the grille which would risk destroying the cloth. The logic answer is that there should be bottom screws, but Indian-assembled HMVs did not follow the same processes, or even the same designs as the comparable ones made in England. If the horn is well-fixed, I would leave it alone.

As to the soundbox, if it is sounding ok, with no buzzing, my recommendation is to leave as is. It does not have rubber gaskets to replace, and it could only benefit of a cleaning and relubing of the end bearings, which would sound bad if they were stuck, too loose or too tight.

Cannot help you with the logo, it is evidently ungluing from the varnished wood, I have some in the same condition, but they are teak machines, and I heard that teak is oily which eventually seeps through and causes the decals to flake off.

[epigramophone]

Many collectors consider the HMV130 to be the best sounding table gramophone ever made. Yours came at a bargain price and is well worth the effort of restoration.

In the UK the 130 was available in oak or mahogany from 1929 to 1933 when it was superseded by the 150. Indian 130's in teak are known, but yours is the first I have seen.

It is many years since I replaced the grille cloth on a 130, but I remember that the main difficulty was maintaining sufficient tension on the cloth when nailing the metal mesh back onto the wooden fretwork.

[snallast]

Thankyou all for your input and interest! Carlos: thanks for the link to a cloth for the grill, I´ll send for it right away, it looks just right.

As to the soundbox, if it is sounding ok, with no buzzing, my recommendation is to leave as is. It does not have rubber gaskets to replace, and it could only benefit of a cleaning and relubing of the end bearings, which would sound bad if they were stuck, too loose or too tight.

Well I just tested the soundbox and it sound pretty bad, buzzing away and the sound is very distorted. It looks like it´s never been opened. You say it could benefit from relubing end bearings (which are they?) Should I open the box or are they the ones close to the needle? I´ll await your reply as it seems a delicate project?

In the meantime I´ve worked on the decal, using cellolose fixative (same stuff I use for fixating charcoal drawings) and I´ll post some pictures of it tomorrow. It was a delicate job - using an objective from a projector and a tiny brush, trying to keep those tiny pieces of paint in their place. Made me think of the time someone threw a rock at the Mona Lisa which hit her eye and then they (allegedly) sealed off the area and found every little tiny piece of paint on the rock and floor and pasted it back in their rightful place (is this to be beleived?)I may end up varnishing the whole decal to keep it in place.

I´ll keep posting about the restauration of this machine. So far I´ve worked on the decal and taken everything apart except the motor, cleaned it and put it back, also glued a part of the motorboard that´d broken off, luckily the piece was inside the box.

Snal

[CarlosV]

Well I just tested the soundbox and it sound pretty bad, buzzing away and the sound is very distorted. It looks like it´s never been opened. You say it could benefit from relubing end bearings (which are they?) Should I open the box or are they the ones close to the needle? I´ll await your reply as it seems a delicate project?

Snal

Snal, the buzzing may be caused by gummed end fittings in the reproducer, or by a tampered diaphragm. You do not need to open the box to fix the needle bar, you will need to unscrew each side screw and then you will find a recessed slotted cylinder in each side. You will have to unscrew each and that should release the little rod that connects to the needle bar on each side. Clean each one, including the pair of recesses in the needle bar, lube and reinstall each side. Then you will have to fiddle with the screw pressure in a trial-and-error, playing it and changing the pressure until the sound is acceptable to you. If the buzzing is still present, then you will have to unscrew the back plate and check if the diaphragm is properly installed, and does not touch the rim of the box. The gasket used in this soundbox is paper, so it should not require any replacement. A third possibility is that the soundbox body is distorted - it is made of (yikes) pot metal, and if it is distorted, the best thing to do is to throw this soundbox in the bin and get a replacement one, they are easily found. A good one will probably cost what you paid for the machine, though.

[snallast]

Thankyou Carlos for everything you wrote about the soundbox, this will be my next step. Hopefully this is what´s ailing it. The back part is a bit broken (picture) but it should fit ok on the arm anyway. I see no distortion in the potmetal.
I´m also ordering the grillcloth.

I worked on the HMV transfer and it didn´t turn out perfect but at least it´s the original one and the most important parts of the image are there, it seems the fixative did a good job of fastening the pieces that were coming off (before & after pics) I applied several coatings. When the lid is open one hardly notices the damage.

The old grillcloth was fastened with matches - a smart way to tighten the cloth before you put the metal net back on. It seems to be the original idea?

[CarlosV]

Nice work on the decal, it looks quite good now! the crack in the soundbox back is very common, it happens when someone tries to loosen the screw that holds the rubber attachment tothe tonearm. It does not really affect the performance of the soundbox. I never replaced the rubber back of my 5as and 5bs for that reason.

The use of matches to fix the cloth is smart, but the method used on the English 130 if I remember well is just glue. If you can use the matches to hold the new cloth it would make it easier to install, and it is reversible if the cloth sags.

[Curt A]

Here is an idea for the grill cloth... Remove the wooden grill from the machine and lay it face down on a flat surface. Cut the material oversize to leave an inch or so around the wood frame. Run a line of glue along the inside fretwork of the grill then place the material over it and stretch it as much as possible. Once stretched, tape the border edges to the flat table surface below (or whatever you use) with Duct Tape or something similar to hold it firmly in place until it dries at least overnight. Once dry, trim the excess cloth off the grill and see if the fabric has remained taut. If you have wrinkles in the cloth mist the material with a plant mister and dry it with a hair dryer, which will cause it to shrink tightly in place... This has been tested by me and has worked before, although no guarantee is being made since I do not know your restoration skills... Good Luck.

Also, by using this method, the screen backing is not necessary