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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:26 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 999
I think the German variant of the "Melba," the olive green "Monarch de Luxe No. 15b" fits here. Some more photos: http://grammophon-platten.de/e107_plugi ... 30876.last


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3478
Location: Western Canada
Very nice Stephan. I can't help but notice the machine looks like it's out of a time warp. Has it been fully restored or....??. I would love to hear the story behind this machine's discovery.

The ones I have seen have a split top from age due to shrinkage. Was a different wood used in this "green" version..??.

I know there have been some ebony copy's made (not to suggest yours is)coming out of Europe.

Am I to assume there was a green stand made like mine for this model...??. Maybe this is why there is green accenting on the stand...??.

Maybe you can add the rest of the info and pics you have on the German forum on this forum in English for us all to read.

Thanks for sharing
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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 999
gramophone78 wrote:
Has it been fully restored or....??. I would love to hear the story behind this machine's discovery.

Yes, the case has been expertly restored. It was overpainted, probably because the original stain was faded by sunlight. After removal of the modern paint, the case was restored according to parts still in the original condition, using powder stain from the date of origin of this gramophone. I hope that some day another one turns up for direct comparison.

I didn't steal it from an old lady. Early this year, another collector found it for little money at an antiquity dealer in Austria. As he had no use for it he passed it on to me, charging nothing more than what he paid and postage for good packing. Before you ask, of course I had fully(!) informed him what he had.
Quote:
The ones I have seen have a split top from age due to shrinkage. Was a different wood used in this "green" version..??.

The wood is oak - in both variants I guess. I have the feeling that the wood work is carried out more carefully in the olive green version, because nothing could be hidden under a thick layer of black paint.
Quote:

I know there have been some ebony copy's made (not to suggest yours is)coming out of Europe.

If you had seen these "copies" compared to an original you wouldn't mention it. Honestly, I wonder why you mention it at all ...
Quote:
Am I to assume there was a green stand made like mine for this model...??. Maybe this is why there is green accenting on the stand...??.

I asked this questions myself, but I don't have an answer, yet.
Quote:
Maybe you can add the rest of the info and pics you have on the German forum on this forum in English for us all to read.

I think about it, but for now the texts and pictures on the German forum are only a click away.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3478
Location: Western Canada
Starkton wrote:
gramophone78 wrote:
Has it been fully restored or....??. I would love to hear the story behind this machine's discovery.

Yes, the case has been expertly restored. It was overpainted, probably because the original stain was faded by sunlight. After removal of the modern paint, the case was restored according to parts still in the original condition, using powder stain from the date of origin of this gramophone. I hope that some day another one turns up for direct comparison.

I didn't steal it from an old lady. Early this year, another collector found it for little money at an antiquity dealer in Austria. As he had no use for it he passed it on to me, charging nothing more than what he paid and postage for good packing. Before you ask, of course I had fully(!) informed him what he had.
Quote:
The ones I have seen have a split top from age due to shrinkage. Was a different wood used in this "green" version..??.

The wood is oak - in both variants I guess. I have the feeling that the wood work is carried out more carefully in the olive green version, because nothing could be hidden under a thick layer of black paint.
Quote:

I know there have been some ebony copy's made (not to suggest yours is)coming out of Europe.

If you had seen these "copies" compared to an original you wouldn't mention it. Honestly, I wonder why you mention it at all ...
Quote:
Am I to assume there was a green stand made like mine for this model...??. Maybe this is why there is green accenting on the stand...??.

I asked this questions myself, but I don't have an answer, yet.
Quote:
Maybe you can add the rest of the info and pics you have on the German forum on this forum in English for us all to read.

I think about it, but for now the texts and pictures on the German forum are only a click away.


Great story Stephan. I hope you are going to post some "before" photo's for us to see how you brought this wonderful machine back to it's original state.

This would make a great thread on proper "restoration"..... ;) :D.

Congrat's again on such a great discovery.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:59 pm
Posts: 344
i wonder is that autograph of caruso a written autograph or a stamped one
many famous artists would have a ink stamp of their autograph its a much quicker way to stamp 100 photographs rather than writing every autograph

this practice has been around for a very long time indeed it dates back as far as the 1750s
i have a book with musical scores with ink stamp autographs of both the composer and publishers
the oldest scores in the book are from the 1780s
notable autographs are
mozart
cimarosa
pergolesi
haydn
pleyel
a.o.
a stamp autograph was as valid as the real thing people even used it on legal documents
it was very populair for a long time up until the beginning of the 1920s
without a doubt the famous opera stars used this method
this said caruso liked to draw so he always had a pen or pencil at the ready


tino


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:03 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Starkton wrote:
In case Mario takes a look in this old thread: Can you please tell me the serial number at the underside of the gramophone case. Is the number preceded by a sequence of letters (DGAG)? Thank you.



Hi Stephan,

Apologies that I have not sent this information to you sooner.

The numbers and letters in the underside read:

D.G.A.G 2131 REV K.

The "REV K" is in a smaller typeface. Are you aware of the significance of these letters?

Cheers,
Mario


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:06 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Stephan,

Pic added also.

Cheers,
Mario


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:01 am 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3478
Location: Western Canada
mariof wrote:
Stephan,

Pic added also.

Cheers,
Mario


Mario, I have a question regarding your stand. In your pics, there appears to be a thin molding around the top. My stand shows no evidence of a molding. I'm wondering why...??.

We know this stand was offered for use with other models and not just the Melba. Perhaps the molding was added for certain models....??.
Any idea..??.

Also, for some reason the photo posted by Stephan showing the "Melba" reproducer was removed. Here it is again for posterity.
Attachment:
1904melbasoundbox.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:00 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 999
gramophone78 wrote:
Also, for some reason the photo posted by Stephan showing the "Melba" reproducer was removed. Here it is again for posterity.

It didn't show up before 1905, as far as I know. I wonder if it was ever publicly offered.
gramophone78 wrote:
We know this stand was offered for use with other models and not just the Melba. Perhaps the molding was added for certain models....??.
Any idea..??.

It was indeed used for a number of models. Therefore, the permanently installed molding must have become increasingly impractical. Interestingly, it provides useful information on the gramophone model it was originally prepared for. For example, the molding on Mario's stand was probably assembled for the "De Luxe No. 15a": viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13732&p=107156&hilit=+no.+15a+#p107156 The molding for the "Melba" would have considered the differently shaped corners of the case.

I think that the molding was either assembled at the time of purchase, or only ever showed up on early stands. This photo, taken in August 1907 during an exhibition in Berlin, shows a variety of new DGAG gramophone models with, as it seems, black painted stands. The "De Luxe II" (see arrow) of 1907 had already replaced the "De Luxe No. 15b" (= Melba) of 1904.


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Last edited by Starkton on Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Latest Addition - Melba and Pedistal
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:31 am 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 999
mariof wrote:
The numbers and letters in the underside read:

D.G.A.G 2131 REV K.

The "REV K" is in a smaller typeface. Are you aware of the significance of these letters?

Thank you, Mario, for the serial number. I am of the opinion that "Rev." is an abbreviation for "Revisor", or examiner (reviewer) in English. Several examiners can be identified, for example "K." and "L.", who reviewed my olive green model, serial number D.G.A.G. 829 Rev.L.

The serial numbering system of the Gramophone Co. puzzles me. Perhaps each model had its own numbering, but I would be very surprised if they sold more than 2000 "Melbas" in just one or two years.


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