The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:16 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:00 pm 
Offline
Victor O
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Posts: 75
I have a yen--probably, given the spousal climate around here, unlikely to be satisfied soon--for one of those nifty Pathé open horn disk players. Alas, while I love Pathé for its goofy originality, if being brutally honest I'd be forced to admit every Pathé machine I've owned has been fitted with a weak motor. Which of the open horn ones would be strong enough to play 14" disks without effort?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:48 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 626
All the older open horn models with the lever to spin the turntable up have strong motors (these numbered Pathé 1, 2 etc and later lettered Pathé A, B, etc) and will play 14 inch discs. You need to take into account the record condition, though. If the disc is worn, the machine will still play but the needle is likely to skid. Some of the later machines, like the "diffusor" on your avatar, have very weakling motors, which added to the drag of the paper cone make a real challenge to play even 10 inch discs all the way. I am not sure if that would qualify as an open horn machine, at it does not really have a horn. Of the later open horns I can only speak about a coin-op I have that has a pretty good motor, different from the ones in the older series, that runs through 14 inch discs with no problems. I don't have any "diamond" series machines, which were the budget brand, so I cannot comment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:54 pm 
Offline
Auxetophone
User avatar
TMF Administrator
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:01 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Ferndale, MI
I had a No. 2, and while it would play a 14" disc, I wouldn't exactly classify the motor as robust. Motors were definitely not Pathé's strong suite.
Brandon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:39 pm 
Offline
Victor O
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Posts: 75
Right--the one in my avatar is a Diamond series model, and the motor needs touch-up windings for many records. That can be a problem, because it's so easy to dislodge a sapphire ball from those broad, shallow grooves. I have a low-end Pathé cylinder machine, and it, too, has barely enough spring to get through a record, but touch-up windings are impossible with it, because the key rotates in the opposite direction as the machine plays. (The mandrel runs backward, too; I've pretty much written that one off as "display only," not as a practical player.)

In its favor, that diffusor system, when it's "on," gives what must be the closest idea of an operatic voice's true size of any acoustic machine I've ever heard. When it's not "on," well, that's a different matter. I think atmospheric humidity has an outside effect on that paper cone.

Do the numbered open horn machines (among which I would not count the diffusor) follow a similar approach to Victor's, with higher numbers equating to more powerful motors? Knowing Pathé, I wouldn't expect that to be a given!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:00 am 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 626
drh wrote:

Do the numbered open horn machines (among which I would not count the diffusor) follow a similar approach to Victor's, with higher numbers equating to more powerful motors? Knowing Pathé, I wouldn't expect that to be a given!


As you guessed, the answer is no... or more or less. From the samples in my collection, this is what I can say: the machines that were designed to play the large 50 cm records have the largest motors: the Concert "A", the nr "17". Nr "12", although not designed for the 50cm records, has the same large motor as "17". Nrs "4" to "6" have a small triangular motor, but they do a job of playing 14-inch records - if the disc is in good condition AND the motor is well maintained. The models "D" and "E" have in-between motors (larger then the "4", smaller than the "17") but still more powerful than the diffusor ones (which is a later design). There is also the very first disc player, the model "A" (not to be mixed with the "Concert A"), with its horn directly attached to the soundbox: this one has a small specific motor, which is not that bad, plays a whole 10 inch side with no rewindings. So, as you see, and given that Pathé renamed and renumbered their machines a number of times, if there was any logic in their system, it got lost in the dust of time (or in changes of marketing people during its commercial life).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Which Pathé open horn machines have strong motors?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:53 am 
Offline
Victor O
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Posts: 75
CarlosV wrote:
drh wrote:

Do the numbered open horn machines (among which I would not count the diffusor) follow a similar approach to Victor's, with higher numbers equating to more powerful motors? Knowing Pathé, I wouldn't expect that to be a given!


As you guessed, the answer is no... or more or less. From the samples in my collection, this is what I can say: the machines that were designed to play the large 50 cm records have the largest motors: the Concert "A", the nr "17". Nr "12", although not designed for the 50cm records, has the same large motor as "17". Nrs "4" to "6" have a small triangular motor, but they do a job of playing 14-inch records - if the disc is in good condition AND the motor is well maintained. The models "D" and "E" have in-between motors (larger then the "4", smaller than the "17") but still more powerful than the diffusor ones (which is a later design). There is also the very first disc player, the model "A" (not to be mixed with the "Concert A"), with its horn directly attached to the soundbox: this one has a small specific motor, which is not that bad, plays a whole 10 inch side with no rewindings. So, as you see, and given that Pathé renamed and renumbered their machines a number of times, if there was any logic in their system, it got lost in the dust of time (or in changes of marketing people during its commercial life).


Thanks--that's just the sort of information I was hoping for. When/if the time comes that I can wheedle permission for a new machine to join the fleet, now I have at least some idea of what to pursue and what to pass. Can't afford (in $$$ or WAF) another display-only machine like the cylinder player. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.