The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:45 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 625
Marco Gilardetti wrote:

Removing the soundbox is proving to be a major problem indeed. (I suspect, by the way, that the lack of a bayonet mount as well as the strange pivot point were all "engineered" in order to avoid previous patents, as both don't make much sense.) I think I've tried to pull and rotate the soundbox up to the limit to which there are serius risks to crack the back flange. I would try to dissolve whatever keeps it in position with "nitro" solvent, but quite obviously the solvent would drip into the soundbox possibly doing some damage there. I don't even know if mother-of-pearl is a material resistant to solvents.

Working on gramphones previously tampered by people with no manual skills is always awful. :|


I suggest you remove the tone arm from the gramophone, disassemble its moving part and instill the solvent from the inside of the tone arm, letting the liquid seep through the inner walls until it reaches the interface with the soundbox. This way you avoid getting the liquid in the sound box. You can also try to apply some thermal cycles on the arm (put in the fridge then heat up by placing a soldering iron near the interface), although I must admit I was never successful with this technique. What I found effective in releasing stubborn connections is to apply penetrating oil and forget about it for some days. In one case it took me about two months and four or five consecutive applications, but at the end the little beast gave up and came off - that was a case of age-induced adhesion, there was no indication of tampering. Another possibility in the case of your machine is cold welding (aluminum+stainless steel): that would be more complicated to undo.


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:20 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:22 am
Posts: 250
Hi Carlos,
In the pictures of your cabinet machine I see the light "fitting" ( a metal tube with a red glass top) is missing. Do you have it as I think I have a spare of the right type if you want it. From memory I think the red glass top is broken but it shouldn't be hard to source a new one.
Let me know if you want it and I'll have a look for it.
Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2149
Location: Delaware
I would try to put it into the freezer, not just the fridge for a couple of days and then try to work it again. You can try the penetrating oil in between freezer sessions. Just put it in a plastic bag to protect you freezer. I agree, it may take days or weeks, but it will separate at some point. I would caution of a soldering iron or even heat gun, Sometimes parts of the tonearm are soldered together under the plating and may separate in unwanted ways when heated.

Good luck!
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 625
Gramtastic wrote:
Hi Carlos,
In the pictures of your cabinet machine I see the light "fitting" ( a metal tube with a red glass top) is missing. Do you have it as I think I have a spare of the right type if you want it. From memory I think the red glass top is broken but it shouldn't be hard to source a new one.
Let me know if you want it and I'll have a look for it.
Andrew

That would be great! I admit I did not try to put it to work (yet), so I did not notice that the fitting is missing. I will PM you to discuss details. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:37 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:22 am
Posts: 250
Slightly off topic, but my Gilbert cabinet is one of my favourites as it was the second one I ever bought in the 1970's. It is beautifully made with the quarter veneered top and door, the automatic light, mother of pearl soundbox front etc. (And it sounds good !!)


Attachments:
102_7879[1].JPG
102_7879[1].JPG [ 97.69 KiB | Viewed 220 times ]
102_7878[1].JPG
102_7878[1].JPG [ 104.43 KiB | Viewed 220 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:56 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 625
Gramtastic wrote:
Slightly off topic, but my Gilbert cabinet is one of my favourites as it was the second one I ever bought in the 1970's. It is beautifully made with the quarter veneered top and door, the automatic light, mother of pearl soundbox front etc. (And it sounds good !!)


It is indeed a good-looking and well-finished machine (besides sounding good). I've read posts decrying Gilbert cabinet woodwork as cheap, but the quality of this one is as good as that of an HMV.


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 3497
Location: Albany NY
Marco Gilardetti wrote:
I don't even know if mother-of-pearl is a material resistant to solvents.


Acetic acid will destroy it- vinegar, and some wines, will dissolve pearls, which are basically calcium. Soak an egg in vinegar long enough and the shell will vanish leaving only the membrane to hold the contents.


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:24 am 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 521
Location: Italy
Fortunately, in the end, the soundbox had not been glued. It was held in place by a piece of black rubber tubing. After having sprayed the join with some penetrant rust release fluid, the soundbox slipped off quite easily. It's amazing how much these fluids are capillar and slippery.

Is a replica of the orginal rubber join available, perhaps? Soundgen, do you sell a repro part for it?


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:06 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 625
Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Fortunately, in the end, the soundbox had not been glued. It was held in place by a piece of black rubber tubing. After having sprayed the join with some penetrant rust release fluid, the soundbox slipped off quite easily. It's amazing how much these fluids are capillar and slippery.

Is a replica of the orginal rubber join available, perhaps? Soundgen, do you sell a repro part for it?


Good to hear that, Marco. On the rubber backing, the original one is shown in one of the photos I posted in this thread, it has a lip that protrudes over the arm diameter and prevents the metal-to-metal contact between soundbox and arm. Unfortunately I never saw any reproduction of these for sale.


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 Post subject: Re: Gilbert portable.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 625
Gramtastic wrote:
Hi Carlos,
In the pictures of your cabinet machine I see the light "fitting" ( a metal tube with a red glass top) is missing. Do you have it as I think I have a spare of the right type if you want it. From memory I think the red glass top is broken but it shouldn't be hard to source a new one.
Let me know if you want it and I'll have a look for it.
Andrew


With a big thanks to Andrew (Gramtastic), here is a photo of my Gilbert now fitted with the missing light tube. Gramstatic graciously offered me the spare he had at home. Now my next task will be to fix the wiring and install a new light bulb - I realized now that this is the only gramophone I own that is illuminated.


Attachments:
Gilbert.jpg
Gilbert.jpg [ 550.12 KiB | Viewed 117 times ]
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