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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:34 am
Posts: 87
Location: Spain
Kevan wrote:
Pedro


If you are making connectors for Pathé reproducers I'll take some too. They seem to always be missing on reproducers that are selling on ebay.


Kevan


Hi Kevan,

I will for sure make some connectors for sell. I need to see how much time it takes to make them and put a price accordingly to it but also considering that it must be as affordable as possible. Once I make the first ones and test them I will tell you all the price for the rigid and swivelling ones and maybe even custom made to other sizes.

Best rregards,

Pedro


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:09 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 110
Location: France
walser wrote:
Regarding the connectors, to my surprise, after seen Jeff's pictures I guess that there are two types. One with a "swivelling sideways" internal ring that fits and other are rigid. I also guess that the ring is spherically shaped outside and tapered inside to conform to the phonograph connector. Maybe Jeff will be able to clarify it (Thanks in advance!)

Well.... I discovered that they are two types of connectors when taking the pics!
And by now, I don’t know anymore which connector go with a reproducer and which one with a recorder as they fit on both.
On one hand, I would say that the connector for a recorder should be rigid but, on the other hand, I know for sure that the connector for a Rex reproducer (the specific one for the blue Menestrel) is rigid.
So, could someone call Charles or Emile Pathé?

Merry Christmas and Happy new year to all of you,
Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Victor I
Over Hill And Dale.....and back again.
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 103
Location: Near Ottawa Canada
I also think there are two lengths of connectors.The short one for the intermediate size mandrel and a longer one to reach the standard mandrel when the intermediate mandrel is removed or an extension possibly.

Anyway Happy Holidays to all and it is a White Christmas here in Canada.


Kevan


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:36 am 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2966
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
So, could someone call Charles or Emile Pathé?

I tried to reach them, but only got a recording... they must be gone for the holidays... :roll: :lol:
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:34 am
Posts: 87
Location: Spain
Happy new year!

I have some very exciting news. After looking for a couple of weeks for a router bit of the correct shape to profile the two main boards I finally needed to make one reprofiling a used one. It worked wonderfully and in a matter of minutes I cut and routed the two main boards of the bottom case and I started to lacquer them. The texture and color of the walnut wood is amazing and layer after layer of lacquer it is blending the color with the old wood nicely. It's unbelievable how nice is now considering the pitiful state it had 3 months ago. Many layers of lacquer are still needed to reach the desired finish.
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Next challenge was the "connectors" of the reproducer and recording heads. I decided to start with the "swivelling" one because it looked more difficult to make. It was a learning experience to make it and it turned pretty well. I deviated slightly from the original design to be sure that they can't be confused with original ones.
As you can see, I ended fabricating it in 4 pieces: The internal spherical ring with a tapered interior hole, the body with a slight difference in both sides of the internal diameter to accommodate in one end the spherical ring and on the other side the reproducer head and finally an external ring that I made deliberately wider and without the knurling to differentiate it from the original and to hold the little axle that aligns vertically the reproducer.
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All the pieces are a press fit and hold together perfectly so for now I have not soldered the external ring nor glued the reproducer till I decide if I nickel plate it later.
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I ended doing it of 15 mm of length because as you can see it is what i need to reach the cylinder at the correct distance and angle.
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So for the first time I could assemble it and test it and it works almost perfectly!
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Why "almost perfectly" you might wonder... Well, it has an annoying problem. From time to time, the carriage binds to the axle and freezes causing the half nut to start jumping on the screw feed and destroying it in a matter of minutes.
After a lot of head scratching and hundreds of measurements I think that I've found the problem. The bronze bushings of the carriage are worn and slightly ovalized and the axle after derusting and polishing is slightly undersized. This becomes a problem when the weight of the horn makes the friction greater and even perfectly oiled it ends binding.
So I've been analyzing how to fix it and finally decided that the bushings were going to be a nightmare to replace but both axles could be replaced with +0,3 mm oversized ones and make a couple of reamers to make the old bushings ad bottom part of the carriage to fit as needed. I've ordered the rods to make both axles. In a couple of weeks they will arrive. Also some new brass (instead of aluminum) half nuts will be needed but that are very easily made.

So next step is to make the rigid connector for the recorder head. I hope to have some time tomorrow to make it.

If you need some of this connectors (or brass half nuts), please contact me. I really don't know what is the best way to sell them because I've seen that the heads all have slightly different dimensions so I'm wondering if a custom fit is the best approach. Regarding the half nuts, I will also need the spring plate that supports the half nut to make the threaded holes to the exact dimensions.

And finally... I'm considering reproducing the famous "Système Verité" because my Coquet was once fitted with one (It came with 4 eye pins under the main board). I would appreciate if somebody can send me pictures of them and dimensions. I suspect that the tube that fits into the carriage is nickeled brass, the rods are made of mild steel and the central wheel of aluminum but I might be wrong. If you are interested in one please also contact me so instead of making one just for me I will make some jigs to make a short production of them. Also, If you need one, send me the dimensions between the eye pins because I've read that there were several sizes.

Regards,

Pedro Martínez


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2238
Location: Delaware
Amazing progress and transformation. I admire your skills.

What is the "Système Verité"?

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:34 am
Posts: 87
Location: Spain
Hi Andreas,

You can see a Coquet with the "Système Verité" installed in this web page: http://www.phonophan.com/pathe_cylinder_phonograph.html

I think that they were at least two reasons to sell it:

- The design of the carriage is far from ideal and the weight of the horn lead to a premature wear of the bushings so this fixes the problem.

- Even without a half nut to move the carriage it works pretty well just leaving the carriage at the middle and leaving the reproducer to move only with the grooves of the cylinder like on the Pathé model 0.

Otherwise I cannot think any other reason to try to sell something that must be a nightmare to store and in most models it prevents you to put back the lid without removing it completely!


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2238
Location: Delaware
Thank you for that link. Looking beyond the mambo-jambo it seems odd that they would sell a device to bypass the feedscrew instead of designing something to aid the carriage with the weight of the horn. Interesting...

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:30 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 110
Location: France
alang wrote:
it seems odd that they would sell a device to bypass the feedscrew instead of designing something to aid the carriage with the weight of the horn.Andreas

In fact, the Verité system does not bypass the feedscrew but distributes the horn weight in a different way so there is less pressure on the reproducer (and cylinder).
I will try to measure a Verité system for Coquet.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé Coquet in need of lots of love
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:53 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 110
Location: France
walser wrote:
Even without a half nut to move the carriage it works pretty well just leaving the carriage at the middle and leaving the reproducer to move only with the grooves of the cylinder like on the Pathé model 0.
Otherwise I cannot think any other reason to try to sell something that must be a nightmare to store and in most models it prevents you to put back the lid without removing it completely!


I would say “No and yes” (rather than wrong and right...). First, I will not try to run a Coquet with the Verité system and the half nut disengaged and Yes, the Verité system was a nightmare to store (and use)!

Here are the dimensions of the Verité system for a Coquet phonograph.

(Pedro, as mentioned earlier, I'm interested by some of the extra connectors you will made)


Attachments:
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verite 2.jpg
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verite 3.jpg
verite 3.jpg [ 128.31 KiB | Viewed 60 times ]
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