The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:40 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm
Posts: 11
This machine has languished in my garage for a few years. It's got a restored morning glory horn but the dented chromed elbow is clearly wrong (could it be one for a junior monarch?), the tone arm looks original and has a brass backed No.4 HMV soundbox. The motor is an HMV No 32 and the logo is visible on the case which is in a poor state - dark, gloopy looking varnish has crazed and effected the transfer/decal. The turntable is of a ten inch type more usually found on a portable and looks too small for the large box but fits the brake and tone arm. The motor is a bit to heavy for the motorboard stay which almost bends under it's weight. All this makes me think it is a machine constructed from parts but it certainly has a vintage quality and it does show some resemblance to very late horn machines of HMV. What do others feel about this?


Attachments:
IMG_0707.JPG
IMG_0707.JPG [ 724.49 KiB | Viewed 361 times ]
IMG_0712.JPG
IMG_0712.JPG [ 923.65 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
IMG_0711.JPG
IMG_0711.JPG [ 1014.5 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
IMG_0708.JPG
IMG_0708.JPG [ 904.65 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
IMG_0710.JPG
IMG_0710.JPG [ 791.41 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
IMG_0705.JPG
IMG_0705.JPG [ 907.28 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:18 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1053
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
I'm not an expert but I've had enough HMV machines pass through my hands to say it looks pretty original to me. Looks like a Monarch variant that someone glopped dark stain/ varnish on.

As to the stay flexing under the weight of the motor board- every Victor V I've had has done that too, for what that's worth.

Looks like a really worthy project to me. Any extra holes we can't see in the pics? that would be a pretty good give away.

Crank looks a little odd to me but that could be the photos.

Here's one that looks similar, also with a 10" platter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNM7i-HMUA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:52 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 660
It looks original, except for the turntable (actually it could be original, but the cloth on top does not allow a good view). It resembles some of the later colonial models, although I could not find a match. The case looks very similar to the HMV 33 (I have one), but the 33 has the internal conduit between arm and horn. That does not mean much, there is no reliable reference for the colonial models.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:07 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 970
Its almost certainly original but I think was probably made in India , I think the HMV 32 motor is the giveaway , the 32 and 34 motors were c 1925 and were used in late horn gramophones such as the model32 ( 34 motor ) but there were more models made for the Indian Market


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Posts: 37
My first impression was of a machine constructed from parts however it is likely this is one of the late Indian HMV models. The corner mouldings look similar to some of these such as the model 33. If you have a copy of 'His Master's Gramophone' you can compare although some of the photos are a little dark or unclear. I wonder if there are any marks to the underside? What is the wood under the dark finish? Of course, teak would definitely indicate a Calcutta origin but other wood was used for imported machines. The period Indian models should not be confused with the modern crapophones originating from there. The winding handle looks to be from a Columbia machine. Why do you think the elbow is wrong? Doesn't it fit? Perhaps the dents preventing a good fit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:16 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
As others have already said, it's definitely an original colonial HMV model, made in Calcutta and probably a teak cabinet with a heavy stain / varnish used to make it appear to be mahogany - this is absolutely correct, so don't be fooled! If the needle point intersects with the spindle correctly I have no reason to doubt that the arm is a replacement. The winding handle is a replacement though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:05 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 2937
Location: Western, WA State
I have this same machine that I picked up in Seattle, many years ago. The 10" turntable is correct. My back bracket is black, not nickel. It is a good solid work horse. It sort of reminds me of a an American Victor III. My front decal is toast, also. Eduardo, from Peru, makes good reproduction decals for this. I have to order one, and put it on.
Harvey Kravitz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How much of this is an original HMV?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:45 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm
Posts: 11
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts. I am glad to discover this is (mostly) an original 'colonial' HMV machine as it is not identical with any of those illustrated in 'His Master's Gramophone'.

The horn elbow does not fit the back bracket properly: it's too snug and, as is seen in the photos, it thus sits quite proud of the bracket's collar which is meant to locate with the ridge on the elbow. The elbow also leaves the horn drooping at a very unconvincing angle and it is that together with the poor fit which makes me suspect it comes from a different machine.

The winding handle is certainly wrong because there is wear that comes from its prior use in another (Columbia?) machine.

Anyway, many thanks again for your considerations.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.