The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
I have a problem with this gramophone. How ever I hold it tightly while winding, the nails in bottom trims don't keep the wooden trims together, wood cracked on some parts. (I will upload pictures tomorrow).

You are probably referring to the base molding where the corners come together... If so, use some wood glue to fasten them back in place, since the nails have loosened up over time. You will need to clamp the pieces until the glue dries and wipe off any excess glue with a damp rag before it dries. You don't need to send this out to someone to do, it is an easy fix.

As far as motor noises... clunking, etc. it is because the machine sat still for many years and the grease in the spring barrel hardened. If you are confident to do this, you can remove the motor and soak it in kerosene or diesel fuel to loosen the old grease, then re-lubricate the spring and all movable parts.

Hope this helps...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:58 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:56 am
Posts: 22
Thank you Curt A. I will try it soon.

However I am very gentle with it, after regular use I get more problems :) but I hope to fix it.

the reproducer/soundbox needle holder screw thread or thumb screw seems like it's damaged.

Exact on the place where it should tighten the needle it doens't tighten up.

I will order different types of thumb screws from ebay and hope one will fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 553
Location: Italy
Layla wrote:
If I post a picture of the motor can you guys tell me which parts I should oil?

Sure, we will be glad to help!

I also believe that the "collpsing" noise comes from the spring barrel. Unfortunately there is no easy solution for this: the spring barrel has to be opened, the spring extracted, cleaned, re-inserted and relubricated; not an easy task for a beginner. It is advisable that the spring barrel will be rehauled this way in a not too far future.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:38 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:56 am
Posts: 22
Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Layla wrote:
If I post a picture of the motor can you guys tell me which parts I should oil?

Sure, we will be glad to help!

I also believe that the "collpsing" noise comes from the spring barrel. Unfortunately there is no easy solution for this: the spring barrel has to be opened, the spring extracted, cleaned, re-inserted and relubricated; not an easy task for a beginner. It is advisable that the spring barrel will be rehauled this way in a not too far future.


Thank you for your answer. The sound is caused by the spring. I hope the sound will vanish after usage.

I will bring the wooden box to a professional for restoration.

1. How to remove the turntable? (should I turn it counter clockwise? or just force it and lift it up

2. I attached pictures of the motor, can you tell me where to oil?

3. Which oil should I use? I found many commercial oil: Oil based grease liquid, Non-Mineral Refined Oil for Clocks, Watch Oil Finest Quality etc.. A gramophone seller told me to use cheap sewing machine oil. Which one do you recommend?


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 am 
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Victor V
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am
Posts: 2429
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...
The turntable most likely sits, either on a pin through the spindle, or on a conical sleeve on the spindle. To remove it, apply some penetrating oil to the spindle; and, after a while, put some wedges under the turntable, and tap the spindle with a brass hammer; tap the wedges as well, and eventually the turntable will come free.

Another possibility is a set screw underneath, that holds the turntable to the spindle. In that case, you will have to insert a long screwdriver under the turntable, find the screw head, and release the screw.

A thorough cleaning of the motor will also help.

As for oiling, a good sewing machine oil is sufficient. Lubricate all the bearings, and make sure they all spin freely without too much side play.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:01 am 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 553
Location: Italy
Layla wrote:
The sound is caused by the spring. I hope the sound will vanish after usage.

It is very unlikely that it will, I'm afraid. You can keep it as is for now if the problem doesn't seem too severe and the gramophone doesn't shake when the spring thumps, but you should have the spring barrel rehauled sooner or later. Better sooner than later, bacause the spring is put under stress.

You can also try to not fully wind the spring, and see if there is a "sweet spot" in which you are able to play through a whole disc but at the same time the spring is not acting in the sector in which it slips and thumps.

Clock oil is the best of all, but will cost you a fortune for few drops. A good quality sewing machine oil is all right for the task.

It is very important that the disc and the pad marked in green are always kept well oiled. Actually the pad itself acts to some extent as an oil reservoire, so oil it well. The disc + wheights assembly should also be free to move vertically over the axis around which they rotate (as indicated by the red arrows), so also oil well the axis over which the whole assembly revolves. When the motor is activated, you will see that the wheight assembly expands, and that the disc is pulled towards the pad. This movement is the heart of the motor, and shall not have any obstacle and must be always kept clean and well lubricated. Oil well also the pivot/bushing over which the whole disc + wheights assembly revolves.

Oil also every pivot/bushing/receptacle of every gear. Put few drops of oil also on the teeth of the gears (not too much or it will drip; few drops here and there are sufficient: the rotation of the gears themselves will automatically redistribute the oil after few turns).

On the teeth of the slower-revolving gears you may also use grease. Oil is instead more indicated on fast-revolving gears.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 3545
Location: Albany NY
Do not oil the spring that goes around the winding shaft- the friction is what keeps the crank from unwinding. If it has oil or grease on it now do not add more.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:56 am
Posts: 22
Thank you! I want to bring it this week to an antique wood restorator.

How must I remove the speed regulator? Just removing the 2 screws and pull it up? Or must I remove the speed regulator bolt first?


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:28 am 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 553
Location: Italy
The speed regulator bolt acts over the speed regulator rod (below the board), but the two are usually not joined or hinged (verify it is so), so the assembly can be easily removed. If the screws are well accessed with the tip of the screwdriver, just unscrew the two screws and the whole assembly should be released. If the screws are hard to reach, you can fully unscrew the bolt first, and then unscrew the plate.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with identification:is this gramophone the real dea
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:57 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:56 am
Posts: 22
Thank you Marco, it's just like you said. I just unscrew the two screws and pull it up.

I handed over the box to a wood restaurateur. I will get it restored at 01-2018.

I contacted some restoration companies in The Netherlands and they asked fluctuating prices, between 380 ex. VAT to 950 euro (they claimed it will take 8 working hours to 20 working hours???). That's too much for my budget.

I found a young professional, cabinet maker and antique restaurateur, who offered me to fix it for max. 250 euro.

In the meantime I will try to clean and oil the motor parts and spring by my self.

This will be the first time for me to service a gramophone. Maybe it is helpful for newbies like me. I found a very useful manual (which is attached), youtube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN5B9OV8_ss ) and tips at this forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5991


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