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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
Thanks a lot for measuring :) . It is always the same with colonials. You never really know and there is not really a way to find out. The mystery is kind of half the fun with those things.


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
After someone took the time to write a long manifesto, claiming this is not real, just a 100 lid and motorboard with crap parts, a cut n shut, I decided to take some more pictures to convey, why I think it is real, and to facilitate an argument about it, if needed.

I bought this gramophone form the indian dealer on ebay. He was actually very nice to communicate with, but it took weeks for my refund because he had no money on his PayPal. He even showed me screenshos of his account. Because of this, I decided to trust him, and as I saw the gramophone in question, I bought it from him, for 300$ + shipping. I payed the gramophone via PayPal, and hours later, my refund for the other one, came in.
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The gramophone arrived in a really sorry, broken state as seen here. Because of that the seller granted me 100$ for the broken parts.
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Some would ask, why I did trust the seller, if when I thought the other one was fake? The reason is, because I can afford it. I can afford to take a gamble on stuff, and I really enjoy doing it.


The gramophone arrived with a wrong, No 5b soundbox, (which is excellent by the way), and with the wrong handle screwed in, on the right side. All are fittings badly scuffed, the springhousing was missing its retaining clip, The tonearm broke of, the bottom panel is replaced with a different, non teak, board. Some of the edge protection is screwed in, with old, but most certainly with wrong screws. The handleholes have been filled, and the outside looks to have an old, but not 80 year old coat of what looks to be french polish on top of the still underlying high polish which is clearly visible on the back..
Do not get me wrong. This gramophone was clearly worked on, within the last 80 years. Very much was/is "wrong" with this gramophone. But I still think it is genuine. Why?


Motorboard and caselid are "numbers matching"
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The inside of the case is made in solide teak. All boards look exactly the same. Same age, all the right screwholes, same finish, same dirt.
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½


Last edited by Teak on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
It is really difficult to put into words, what I mean, when is say, it feels right. Just look at the pictures of the case. The case and the lid is clearly fabricated in exactly the same way, the same wood, the same dowels, it looks completely right to me.
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The case has no needle tray cutout. I do not know of any hmv teakbody gramophone with that feature, hence it must be made for this instrument.

The case was made, that the hight of the case was to large, and as there is no horn, this size was not needed and would never have been done like that by hmv. The fotos show, that the hight of the Motor just fits into the case, as it should. Everyone with a 32 motor can attest to that.
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I am happy to supply additional pictures of specific parts, if needed. I also have no intentions of selling the gramophone. I am just quite happy with all its character :D


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 1802
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
The fact that the machine has undergone some non-standard repairs during it's long life is no reflection on it's authenticity. I have no doubt that it is "right".

Although the original purchaser would have been a person of substance, subsequent owners would out of necessity have used whatever was available to keep the machine operational. India was not a wealthy country, so many people had to adopt a "make do and mend" approach. No-one worried about originality in those days.

The question we should be asking ourselves is what other rarities are still out there waiting to be discovered.

Roger.


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:12 am
Posts: 11
I would not worry. The colonial models were not so sharply delineated and were not as standardized as it is otherwise with machines from the gramophone company.

I think it is a model 112 and because the might have leftovers of 100 parts, they have installed these.

A model 112 i own has totally different parts, that were normally used between 1925 and 1928 on the model 101 and i have no doubt that it is totally genuine... The numbers on the case and in the motorboard are matching on your machine, the case is well made and looks original. The baseplate of the case was surely changed sometimes, but otherwise everything looks great.

So, don' t worry and enjoy your rare find!


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 986
Teak wrote:
After someone took the time to write a long manifesto, claiming this is not real, just a 100 lid and motorboard with crap parts, a cut n shut, I decided to take some more pictures to convey, why I think it is real, and to facilitate an argument about it, if needed.
½


It is a completely original Indian HMV , although it is a conglomeration of parts from different eras , The HMV factory in Dum Dum Calcutta was sent all of the defunct parts from HMV UK and they made them into gramophones for sale locally and in India , that is why you can get machines with such disparate parts from 1920 to 1935 ,BUT they are right , in the 1980's I received many shipments from India of peculiar machines they weren't standard but they weren't faked , I wish I had photographed them but sadly didn't


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 542
Location: United Kingdom
Of course it's a perfectly legitimate machine. The doubts expressed are sadly typical, and at least one of them is based on assumption, not fact. The statement that all bottom corners had rubber inserts is not true, early versions of the 100 had the same corners all round - no inserts.


Last edited by Phono48 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:36 pm 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
some more questions arose and the only way I am able to respond is like this (sry):


1) It is dirty the way it is, because there have been globs of lubricant inside the case, as the springhousing clip was missing. It is even worse around the edges, because i cleaned it not very thoroughly. The inside of the case was filled with about 50 bug carcases, dried and dead inside for decades. One of those still inside the lid lock.
2) I have no idea, but by the looks of things it looks right. The finish, the age, the screws.
3) -"-
3) Because the corners are maybe wrong.
4) Because it was repaired.
5) Because the reflector was screwed in with little care, just 2 mm down, by somebody in the past.
6) We will never know.

Additionally, I also own a teak 101, which was also very dirty inside, because it was covered with grime.

Also, I might add, the pictures do not do the real thing justice. especially at the back the finish of lid and case are really the same original finish. I will try to take better pictures in bright daylight tomorrow.

I just took apart my calcutta teak 101. I think the escutcheon hole is just fine.
Here are the pictures:
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I am really astonished, someone would say, the lid is correct, but the case not. I have it in front of me. I just do not have any doubt in my mind. Either the hole case and lid is fake, or both is right. Both are just made in exactly the same way. They look the same. To fake half is simply impossible.Every single "extra" hole in the hole body is simply explained (reseated) with existing/corresponding screws or very obvious repairs (handle)

In comparison to my 114 the escutcheon hole is exactly the same size.


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
to my absolute delight, while handling the gramophone so much I discovered that the fittings actually are gilt like my 101. Gold residue on every fitting glimmering under flashlight.
I love gramophones :D

If it is fake, it is one hell of a fake 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: rare Teak HMV 100
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:45 pm 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 87
Location: Vienna/Austria
just for reference, a last post, before I will rest my case here.
It was conceded, that the motorboard was genuine, as also clearly seen by the numbering on the top and bottom of motorboard.

this is a 100 without a 32 motor (borrowed from Graham-ophones)
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this is my motorboard without any! extra holes (taken from ebay)
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as the 32 motor, that was clearly attached to this motorboard since the beginning wouldn't fit a normal case, the case must have been bigger. Dirt and repairs and all.


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