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 Post subject: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:25 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
Hello everyone.

I bought an HMV 101 this morning from an auction but the turntable does not rotate.

I make the following observations:


There is no "mechanical / catching / click type sound when the sound box is moved from resting position to the playing position like there is on my HMV 102.

The spring seems be fully wound - there is a lot of resistance when attempting to wind with the handle. I don't want to 'force it'- I assume it would wind up as easily and smoothly as my HMV 102.

When I manually turn the turn-table a few spins the spring resistance is then far less and the turn-table moves a little when being wound.

The 'brake' is to the left.

The speed controller is very stiff to move.


Thank you very much for any advice / assistance you can give to help to ascertain what is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:35 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 861
I seems that your motor needs cleaning/degreasing followed by oiling/regreasing. I have one like yours that had similar symptoms, that disappeared after I cleaned the motor. The 101 is harder to wind than the 102, but should be manageable without overexertion. I did not understand the click of the soundbox, are you referring to the ON/OFF of the 102? the 101 is completely manual.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:36 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
Like all HMV machines the grease they used to use goes solid in the spring barrel and probably in your case has solidified while the spring is fully wound , likewise the speed control is probably gummed up to , you need to unwind the spring completely by turning the turntable clockwise and when fully unwound remove the spring barrel remove the spring clean and regrease , . judging when fully unwound is difficult and if you go too far you can break the spring by turning it back on itself BUT if the spring isn't unwound when you remove the barrel from the motor it can sometimes jump out causing damage , the spreed control can easily be freed up Hope this helps Regards Mike


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:50 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
CarlosV wrote:
I seems that your motor needs cleaning/degreasing followed by oiling/regreasing. I have one like yours that had similar symptoms, that disappeared after I cleaned the motor. The 101 is harder to wind than the 102, but should be manageable without overexertion. I did not understand the click of the soundbox, are you referring to the ON/OFF of the 102? the 101 is completely manual.


Thank you very much.

Sorry, I meant to say that when the sound box on the 102 is moved to the play position you can see the chrome lever type mechanism move and hear it click. It also offers a little resistance. The 101 has no such visible mechanism but I assume that there is something similar inside the box ? If so there is no sound or resistance. Sorry again if this is badly stated by me.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:54 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
soundgen wrote:
Like all HMV machines the grease they used to use goes solid in the spring barrel and probably in your case has solidified while the spring is fully wound , likewise the speed control is probably gummed up to , you need to unwind the spring completely by turning the turntable clockwise and when fully unwound remove the spring barrel remove the spring clean and regrease , . judging when fully unwound is difficult and if you go too far you can break the spring by turning it back on itself BUT if the spring isn't unwound when you remove the barrel from the motor it can sometimes jump out causing damage , the spreed control can easily be freed up Hope this helps Regards Mike


Thank you very much Mike.

I wonder, if the original grease is solid would warming it up help at all - like leaving the 101 in the sunshine ?


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:39 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
poodling around wrote:
soundgen wrote:
Like all HMV machines the grease they used to use goes solid in the spring barrel and probably in your case has solidified while the spring is fully wound , likewise the speed control is probably gummed up to , you need to unwind the spring completely by turning the turntable clockwise and when fully unwound remove the spring barrel remove the spring clean and regrease , . judging when fully unwound is difficult and if you go too far you can break the spring by turning it back on itself BUT if the spring isn't unwound when you remove the barrel from the motor it can sometimes jump out causing damage , the spreed control can easily be freed up Hope this helps Regards Mike


Thank you very much Mike.

I wonder, if the original grease is solid would warming it up help at all - like leaving the 101 in the sunshine ?


Actually that's not a bad idea but you may need more heat than sunshine , you could try heating the spring barrel gently with a gas torch to see if it unwinds if careful this may work , and you can lubricate all the bearings first which may start the unwinding process as well


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:55 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
soundgen wrote:
poodling around wrote:
soundgen wrote:
Like all HMV machines the grease they used to use goes solid in the spring barrel and probably in your case has solidified while the spring is fully wound , likewise the speed control is probably gummed up to , you need to unwind the spring completely by turning the turntable clockwise and when fully unwound remove the spring barrel remove the spring clean and regrease , . judging when fully unwound is difficult and if you go too far you can break the spring by turning it back on itself BUT if the spring isn't unwound when you remove the barrel from the motor it can sometimes jump out causing damage , the spreed control can easily be freed up Hope this helps Regards Mike


Thank you very much Mike.

I wonder, if the original grease is solid would warming it up help at all - like leaving the 101 in the sunshine ?


Actually that's not a bad idea but you may need more heat than sunshine , you could try heating the spring barrel gently with a gas torch to see if it unwinds if careful this may work , and you can lubricate all the bearings first which may start the unwinding process as well



Brilliant ! I will try that initially then.

Thank you once again.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:13 am 
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Victor VI
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3616
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Just a suggestion before using a torch... overheating the spring in the spring barrel can remove the temper in the spring...

Remove the motor and place it in a plastic dishpan or bucket. Pour in kerosene or diesel fuel to completely cover the motor... Let it sit for several days or a week, allowing the spring barrel and all of the gearing to be completely saturated. Periodically, rotate the mechanism and place it back in the container. This should loosen the old hardened grease. Pull it out of the container, place it on an old cardboard box and let it drain thoroughly... again, for a day or two, since all of the old black grease will gradually run out and cause a mess. Wind it up - out of the case and see if everything moves... if not, repeat the process.

Hope this helps...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:24 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 647
Location: United Kingdom
poodling around wrote:
Sorry, I meant to say that when the sound box on the 102 is moved to the play position you can see the chrome lever type mechanism move and hear it click. It also offers a little resistance. The 101 has no such visible mechanism but I assume that there is something similar inside the box ? If so there is no sound or resistance. Sorry again if this is badly stated by me.


No, there is nothing like the 102 mechanism inside the box of the 101. The levers on the 102 are the automatic brake to stop the turntable. There is not one on the 101, the turntable is stopped by the handbrake, which is in the bottom right hand corner of the motorboard.

Barry


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 101 - Please help diagnose the problem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:33 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
Phono48 wrote:
poodling around wrote:
Sorry, I meant to say that when the sound box on the 102 is moved to the play position you can see the chrome lever type mechanism move and hear it click. It also offers a little resistance. The 101 has no such visible mechanism but I assume that there is something similar inside the box ? If so there is no sound or resistance. Sorry again if this is badly stated by me.


No, there is nothing like the 102 mechanism inside the box of the 101. The levers on the 102 are the automatic brake to stop the turntable. There is not one on the 101, the turntable is stopped by the handbrake, which is in the bottom right hand corner of the motorboard.

Barry



Oh I see.

I am sorry if this is a silly question but do you have to do something to make the turn-table start to turn or does it just start when the sound box is moved to the play position on the record - like the 102 does ?

Thank you.


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