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 Post subject: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:49 am 
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Victor I
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Could I have advice please about how to repair movement on the tone arm on my Paillard table top gramophone ?

I assume that the tone arm is not meant to move at the base nor at the centre joint ?

The main wobble is at the base.

The problem with the 'wobbling' I think is that the needle is at the wrong angle when playing 78 records.

Thank you very much for any advice you can give and I hope this makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:53 am 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
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It's unclear by your pictures if this gramophone should have ball bearings at the base, or if there is any adjustment screw/nut below the board. I wonder if the balls were partly or totally missed at some point in history.


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:50 am 
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Victor I
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
It's unclear by your pictures if this gramophone should have ball bearings at the base, or if there is any adjustment screw/nut below the board. I wonder if the balls were partly or totally missed at some point in history.


Thank you very much for your response Mario.

I cannot see any adjustment screw or nut under the board. Just the top of the horn in the wood hole. It does have a screw at the side just visible in photo below but I assume this is to keep the horn in position ?

I could not see any ball bearings in the base of the tone arm. It was well greased though.

I wonder if the circular piece of metal (called a flange ?) was pressed in (photo below) and has worked loose a little and that is why it is loose ? Maybe ?

Thank you again Mario.


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:34 am 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
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Location: Italy
It is definitely a tonearm with no ball bearings and no adjustment screw/nut. I don't know if there is anything you can do with it. Looking at the pictures, it looks as if the bottom flange (the part where the arrow "should there be ball bearings under here" is pointing at) and the surrounding top flange could possibly be separated. There is a clear separation line between the two parts, and also the colour of the metal is different. Is it possible at all to remove the bottom flange?


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:52 am 
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Victor I
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
It is definitely a tonearm with no ball bearings and no adjustment screw/nut. I don't know if there is anything you can do with it. Looking at the pictures, it looks as if the bottom flange (the part where the arrow "should there be ball bearings under here" is pointing at) and the surrounding top flange could possibly be separated. There is a clear separation line between the two parts, and also the colour of the metal is different. Is it possible at all to remove the bottom flange?



Thank you for your advice / thoughts Marco.

I would think that the flange is a much harder metal so trying to remove it might break the surrounding thin metal.

Why would removing it help though please I wonder ?

Maybe, as you say, there is nothing to be done then ?


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Victor VI
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Why would removing it help though please I wonder ?

Removing it would give you insight into its construction and answer the question about ball bearings. Victor tonearms are similar but have ball bearings between that flange and the tonearm to keep it spaced properly and swivel easily as the reproducer tracks the record. If there are no ball bearings, then maybe over time that part has worn the metal underneath and caused it to wobble. The only way to determine that is to remove it and look.

Your fix will be dependent on what you discover... It may need some type of small bushing or spacer or something to correct the wobble. Grease might also help... but you can't tell until you look. If you do decide to remove the steel flange, just do it carefully, since the nickel plated piece might be brass, or worse yet, potmetal... :? If someone assembled it, it can be disassembled... just take your time.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Victor I
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Curt A wrote:
Why would removing it help though please I wonder ?

Removing it would give you insight into its construction and answer the question about ball bearings. Victor tonearms are similar but have ball bearings between that flange and the tonearm to keep it spaced properly and swivel easily as the reproducer tracks the record. If there are no ball bearings, then maybe over time that part has worn the metal underneath and caused it to wobble. The only way to determine that is to remove it and look.

Your fix will be dependent on what you discover... It may need some type of small bushing or spacer or something to correct the wobble. Grease might also help... but you can't tell until you look. If you do decide to remove the steel flange, just do it carefully, since the nickel plated piece might be brass, or worse yet, potmetal... :? If someone assembled it, it can be disassembled... just take your time.



Thank you curt.

I wonder if it was assembled with some kind of 1,000 pounds per square inch press though - which would make it difficult to reverse the process and remove.

I did wonder about leaving it as it is and stuffing into the gaps as much PTFE tape as I could manage though ?


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
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poodling around wrote:
Curt A wrote:
Why would removing it help though please I wonder ?

Removing it would give you insight into its construction and answer the question about ball bearings. Victor tonearms are similar but have ball bearings between that flange and the tonearm to keep it spaced properly and swivel easily as the reproducer tracks the record. If there are no ball bearings, then maybe over time that part has worn the metal underneath and caused it to wobble. The only way to determine that is to remove it and look.

Your fix will be dependent on what you discover... It may need some type of small bushing or spacer or something to correct the wobble. Grease might also help... but you can't tell until you look. If you do decide to remove the steel flange, just do it carefully, since the nickel plated piece might be brass, or worse yet, potmetal... :? If someone assembled it, it can be disassembled... just take your time.



Thank you curt.

I wonder if it was assembled with some kind of 1,000 pounds per square inch press though - which would make it difficult to reverse the process and remove.

I did wonder about leaving it as it is and stuffing into the gaps as much PTFE tape as I could manage though ?


these don't have ball bearings leave it as it is but rotate the base on the motor board so the part you say doesn't wobble is at the front and screw back into a new position


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Victor III
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
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Posts: 704
Location: Italy
I don't think that tape would help, unfortunately. That join has to move absolutely freely and as smoothly as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: advice please re: wobbly tone arm repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Victor VI
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Obviously, Soundgen is more familiar with your machine than I am and his advice to rotate the mounting plate to a new position sounds good... it certainly won't hurt anything to try that.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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