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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:14 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
102c B87381

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index ... ic=16282.0


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:45 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2279
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
I have just checked my 102's and found as follows :

102070865............Blue.
102076859............Red Leather.
102140519............Green.
102c B/1 42264.......Black.
102c B/3 103107......Red Leatherette.

This has revealed an anomaly. The Blue machine bearing the earliest serial number has the wooden motor board, yet the Red Leather machine bearing a later serial number has the earlier metal motor board where the motor is mounted in a well. The expensive Red Leather 102 did not sell well and was soon discontinued, so examples of the earlier design may have remained in stock after the introduction of the wooden motor board, but this does not explain the serial number anomaly.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:08 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
Taken from the Web , shows they must have started renumbering at some time

102C 836859 and 102 no B/4 53828 , so did they get to 999,999 and start again ?


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:15 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
epigramophone wrote:
I have just checked my 102's and found as follows :

102070865............Blue.
102076859............Red Leather.
102140519............Green.
102c B/1 42264.......Black.
102c B/3 103107......Red Leatherette.

This has revealed an anomaly. The Blue machine bearing the earliest serial number has the wooden motor board, yet the Red Leather machine bearing a later serial number has the earlier metal motor board where the motor is mounted in a well. The expensive Red Leather 102 did not sell well and was soon discontinued, so examples of the earlier design may have remained in stock after the introduction of the wooden motor board, but this does not explain the serial number anomaly.

When you say your blue one has a wooden motor board , do you mean it is a wooden board covered in blue material ? Or a wood visible wooden board , if the latter , I suggest it may be a marriage between a Blue 102 sand the inside from a black one


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:18 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2279
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Wooden motor board covered in blue material. The machine is totally original including the record tray and case key.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1098
Wow, nice to wake up to so many responses!

But let’s revisit the reason for the serial number query: trying to estimate the range where the original 102 “flawed” auto-brake was used.

So can you all go back and give us this info:

- Largest serial number on a 101

- serial numbers of any 102s with the early auto-brake

- smallest serial number on a 102 without the early brake

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
epigramophone wrote:
I have just checked my 102's and found as follows :

102070865............Blue.
102076859............Red Leather.
102140519............Green.
102c B/1 42264.......Black.
102c B/3 103107......Red Leatherette.

This has revealed an anomaly. The Blue machine bearing the earliest serial number has the wooden motor board, yet the Red Leather machine bearing a later serial number has the earlier metal motor board where the motor is mounted in a well. The expensive Red Leather 102 did not sell well and was soon discontinued, so examples of the earlier design may have remained in stock after the introduction of the wooden motor board, but this does not explain the serial number anomaly.


HMV have clearly started renumbering probably from 000001 with the new dated nos which is why they are all lower , could the same thing have happened to the new model with wooden board ? thus your blue portable is a later renumbered series , meaning your Red Leather one was 76859 of a first series , they clearly made a lot of 102s as evidenced by the 836859 which must be pre 1936 so were making 200,000 to 250,000 102s a year , this must be why your later Blue one has a lower number .

So you will have

Ist series 1932 102 from 000001 to 076959 to ******
2nd series 1933/⅘ 102 from 000001 to 836859 to ****88
Third series B 1936 again starting at 000001 , and perhaps each subsequent year starts at year starts at 000001 as well


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:24 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Posts: 256
This seems to be an early auto brake model:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-HMV-102-Gramophone-Records/183449282127?hash=item2ab66de64f:g:czYAAOSw3MpbpnwD


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1098
Ok we are zeroing in a little bit now.

Here are the numbers for the 102s with the early autobrake shown in the thread above. I've deleted the "1020" prefix.

2879
4744 (also typo'd as 4774)
7553
12379
30941

and then it appears the earliest 102 with the next version of brake in our list is

63326

So far, so good, but i wish we could narrow the gap between 30941 and 63326 a bit nore. For now let's guesstimate 40,000 early autobrake models were shipped.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 102 production numbers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:16 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1405
PeterF wrote:
Ok we are zeroing in a little bit now.

Here are the numbers for the 102s with the early autobrake shown in the thread above. I've deleted the "1020" prefix.

2879
4744 (also typo'd as 4774)
7553
12379
30941

and then it appears the earliest 102 with the next version of brake in our list is

63326

So far, so good, but i wish we could narrow the gap between 30941 and 63326 a bit nore. For now let's guesstimate 40,000 early autobrake models were shipped.



You missed or ignored the Red leather one with a number 76859 so your numbers should read


2879
4744
7553
12379
30941
76859


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