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 Post subject: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Victor II
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Well, I say it is 'nice' but I have no idea really except it looks nice to me, plays 2 and 4 minute cylinders and seems to have a low serial number (what do I know).

Anyway, I have seen a 'condition of sale' on a few machines - that the serial number must not be 'removed / changed' - and wonder why this is ?

I also see sometimes that items must not be sold below a certain price - like 78 records - I don't suppose this has anything to do with it though ?

Thank you for any clarification you can give about this.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/staceys-auctioneers-and-valuers/catalogue-id-srsta10139/lot-631a7e35-451b-40b1-91e0-a9fa00fdec46


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sales.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:23 am 
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Victor III
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Serial number's lower than mine--which is in the 79xxx's.

I don't know what the patent stuff and the minimum price stands for but it's on most Edison phonographs of this vintage.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am 
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Victor IV
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Quote:
I have seen a 'condition of sale' on a few machines - that the serial number must not be 'removed / changed' - and wonder why this is ?


Edison strictly enforced the retail prices of machines and records. Some dealers tried to discount machines but if they were caught, Edison would sue them -- and at least in the early 20th century, they always won. The courts ruled that manufacturers of patented items could set and enforce prices.

One big problem, which appears often in early issues of the Edison Phonograph Monthly magazine, was criminals who would buy machines on an installment plan. After making the initial down payment to get the machine, they would grind off the identifying serial number and resell the still-new machine on the black market. A machine with the serial number altered or removed was instantly suspect, and under Edison's terms of sale -- enforced by the courts -- it would be illegal to own.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:19 am 
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Victor II
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TinfoilPhono wrote:
Quote:
I have seen a 'condition of sale' on a few machines - that the serial number must not be 'removed / changed' - and wonder why this is ?


Edison strictly enforced the retail prices of machines and records. Some dealers tried to discount machines but if they were caught, Edison would sue them -- and at least in the early 20th century, they always won. The courts ruled that manufacturers of patented items could set and enforce prices.

One big problem, which appears often in early issues of the Edison Phonograph Monthly magazine, was criminals who would buy machines on an installment plan. After making the initial down payment to get the machine, they would grind off the identifying serial number and resell the still-new machine on the black market. A machine with the serial number altered or removed was instantly suspect, and under Edison's terms of sale -- enforced by the courts -- it would be illegal to own.



I see - it makes sense now.

Thank you very much Tinfoilphono for the information and example.
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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:21 am 
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Victor II
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VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
Serial number's lower than mine--which is in the 79xxx's.

I don't know what the patent stuff and the minimum price stands for but it's on most Edison phonographs of this vintage.



Thank you VanEpsFan1914.

Interesting, I wonder what the lowest number currently in existence for this model may be ?
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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:21 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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I've seen 3-digit serial numbers on a couple of Firesides. Here's one currently on eBay with a 4-digit number, and displaying the early decorations:

George P.
Attachment:
Fireside early1.jpg
Fireside early1.jpg [ 190.78 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

Attachment:
Firesideearly2.jpg
Firesideearly2.jpg [ 112.24 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Victor II
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phonogfp wrote:
I've seen 3-digit serial numbers on a couple of Firesides. Here's one currently on eBay with a 4-digit number, and displaying the early decorations:

George P.
Attachment:
Fireside early1.jpg

Attachment:
Firesideearly2.jpg



Aha, that is interesting - thank you phonogfp.
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We're setting off with soft explosion


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Fireside Phonograph and question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
You're very welcome.

George P.


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