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 Post subject: Question about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:19 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
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Location: Albany, Oregon
Many years ago, while visiting Victoria BC, I remember seeing an all brass HMV (or Victor) horn. It was about or the same size as the #19 Flower horn. In the States the 24B is one of the most highly prized of all Victor horns. Is a solid brass Flower horn more common in the British Islands? Were they available in several sizes?

Thanks, Jerry Blais


Last edited by Jerry B. on Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:52 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
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Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
On most HMV machines the brass Witch's Hat horn was superseded by the painted steel Morning Glory, sometimes known as a flower horn, but wooden horns were a popular extra cost option on many models. Brass or nickel plated Morning Glory horns seem to have been reserved mainly for some of the higher priced models sold in overseas markets, and are not commonly found.


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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Victor I
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Posts: 169
Location: St. Albans, UK
It's true I'm afraid the g&t/Victor brass morning glory horn is rare here. I've only seen one in the flesh (with correct g&t fitting rather than one by another maker) and that had condition issues. I'm sure someone like Mr. Proudfoot has seen a few? Strangely ive seen quite a few, that 'appear' to be brass, in old British photographs such as the postcard of actress Phyllis Dare. (The only copy of it I can find now, attached, is very poor quality. I have a better image of it somewhere!) It may have photographed better than the painted horns.

In the States they are lucky because The Wyatt's make a good copy (I believe) but won't ship it to poor old England. :( Sniff.

Edit: It appears The Wyatts don't make this anymore and it was only available in the smaller size.


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Last edited by jamiegramo on Sun May 05, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3688
Location: Western, WA State
Could this be an aftermarket horn? I have seen all brass and nickle plated horns for Victor or HMV. Do you remember if the petals are convex or concave?
Harvey Kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:23 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:11 pm
Posts: 85
It is my understanding that the all brass morning glory horns were used on the high end models until the woof horns came out and the wood horns were generally used from then on. I would associate an all brass witch hat type to be used on the earlier horn machine models. This is based on the English origin stuff which is what turns up here. Not Victor.
I’ve seen the odd brass morning glory horn here in Australia. They seldom turn up.
This is the one I have which came with the machine pictured.
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:18 am 
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Victor I
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Location: St. Albans, UK
Stephen
This was my understanding aswell. The New Melba (and DG De Luxe II) is one of my favourites from the G&T period. Your brass morning glory horn is perfect for it. I believe this horn is how it was originally intended to be suppied although most New Melbas are found with mahogany horns. I guess the life of the brass morning glory horn was fairly short lived.
Jamie


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 Post subject: Re: flowerQuestion about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:13 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6370
Location: Albany, Oregon
Quote:
Could this be an aftermarket horn? I have seen all brass and nickle plated horns for Victor or HMV. Do you remember if the petals are convex or concave?
Harvey Kravitz


It was a long time ago plus we were newlyweds :D so my memory may be a little off but I remember the horn as being identical to a #19 Flower horn only all brass. I truly believe it was a Victor product. Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Question about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:24 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Hi,
I purchased a Victor V made of Mahogany a number of years ago (found it here in Australia) and it had a Nickel MG horn... whilst I sold the machine, which ended up in the US, I kept the horn at the time. I still have the horn. At the time, no one could confirm for me whether Victor made Nickel plated MG...I personally wouldn’t have been surprised if something like a special order, late Victor V in Mahogany would have been supplied with such a horn. Are we saying that yes these were supplied as such? Here is a photograph of the horn (extra lugs were added at some point to attach it to what was an odd elbow)....

Cheers,
Mario


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 Post subject: Re: Question about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Victor I
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Posts: 169
Location: St. Albans, UK
Your Morning Glory horn does indeed look correct it could well be a special order or an after market upgrade done when the machine was fairly new as the plating looks old. I understood that the Victor V was an oak machine and the Victor VI was mahogany but this horn could have been used with either. If you had found this horn in Germany or continental Europe the plating wouldn't surprise me as the German and French gramophone companies very often nickel plated their horns.

I assume your horn is the larger size if it was on a Victor V?

Interesting what i've learned from this thread is that it appears Victor offered the brass MG (or flower/petal) horn in 2 sizes. I had assumed it was only offered in the large (or senior monarch) size as was the case in Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about all brass HMV Flower horns
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:52 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6370
Location: Albany, Oregon
I've seen a handful of mahogany Victor V machines. Some have typical Victor V angular features like big square corner columns, etc. Others looks like an oversized mahogany Victor IV. I've been told that one type was typically made for export markets where horn models continued to sell fairly well. I would sure appreciate a more knowledgeable member to comment. Maybe the nickel plated horn was provided or an option on export models. Mostly speculation ;) , Jerry Blais


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