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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Victor I
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Location: St. Albans, UK
Inigo wrote:
It has by design that awful tracking angle common with this type of tonearm. And as the soundbox falls in the middle of the tonearm, inverting the gooseneck to the right hand (soundbox also inverted) has almost no effect in the bad tracking angle at the start of a 12" record. A lifebelt would improve the tracking, and still it would be better to have a special gooseneck made to request with the adequate angle instead of 180 degrees, maybe 135 degrees would track better... A new project indeed...


If you don't want to remake the tonearm, you could always remake the flange on the back of the soundbox :). This really does reduce record wear and sounds better...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13306&start=10


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Victor II
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Keep'em well oiled
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Posts: 386
Location: Madrid, Spain
Yes, that's a clever idea. I also used it with my Columbia 113, which has also a very bad track design. I substituted the original dried red rubber back joint in the soundbox by another made out of silicone, which I gave a wedged shape like your cork example. Thanks. That silicone wedged rubber joint hardened in a few months, and I am planning to make another. Your idea using cork instead of silicone looks easy to do and looks well... Thanks!
And it is reversible, so no harm is done to the original... Very clever.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:03 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2710
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Steve wrote:
epigramophone wrote:
Of course it has an internal horn, albeit of rather crude design.

As others have said, they are not popular with UK collectors.


The 58 has a substantial cast iron internal horn and not simply a ply construct using the motorboard to form the top of the horn as in the Style 1 / 1A and Style 3 etc.

The motor does not interrupt the horn in other words.


The Model 58 horn was still crude compared with the alternatives on offer in 1922/23. It cost £11 in oak and £12 in mahogany. The same money would have bought the Model 24, £11 with a Morning Glory horn or £12 with a wood horn. I know which I would have bought.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:31 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 957
jamiegramo wrote:

If you don't want to remake the tonearm, you could always remake the flange on the back of the soundbox :). This really does reduce record wear and sounds better...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13306&start=10


Very clever! I'll try it on my Victor VV-VI.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:24 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1587
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
epigramophone wrote:
Steve wrote:
epigramophone wrote:
Of course it has an internal horn, albeit of rather crude design.

As others have said, they are not popular with UK collectors.


The 58 has a substantial cast iron internal horn and not simply a ply construct using the motorboard to form the top of the horn as in the Style 1 / 1A and Style 3 etc.

The motor does not interrupt the horn in other words.


The Model 58 horn was still crude compared with the alternatives on offer in 1922/23. It cost £11 in oak and £12 in mahogany. The same money would have bought the Model 24, £11 with a Morning Glory horn or £12 with a wood horn. I know which I would have bought.


No, just as back in those days, your wife would have had other ideas. External horns were very much passe by the 1920s.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Victor I
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Posts: 169
Location: St. Albans, UK
Inigo wrote:
Yes, that's a clever idea. I also used it with my Columbia 113, which has also a very bad track design. I substituted the original dried red rubber back joint in the soundbox by another made out of silicone, which I gave a wedged shape like your cork example. Thanks. That silicone wedged rubber joint hardened in a few months, and I am planning to make another. Your idea using cork instead of silicone looks easy to do and looks well... Thanks!
And it is reversible, so no harm is done to the original... Very clever.


Thanks Inigo. The composite type cork I used is very pliant like rubber and silicon aswell as being lightweight and easy to sand. I was able to get the minimum tracking error possible for the length of tonearm.

I think that whatever you do it would be difficult to make the tracking much worse!

Jamie


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1670
soundgen wrote:
Virtually unsaleable in the UK unless you wanted the soundbox or motor , I could let you have one for £20 if you want to collect it , no soundbox or winding handle


nobody wants one for £20 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Victor IV
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Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
No because the soundbox and winding handle will never match the machine and will probably cost more than it's worth to complete.


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:13 pm 
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Victor II
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Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 386
Location: Madrid, Spain
Thanks Jamie, I'll try to find a cork like yours and give it a try... It's an elegant reversible way to improve the original design, kind of attachment. Wasn't the famous lifebelt also an attachment for the same purpose?
I will apply this truck to the Columbia no 15 soundbox of my 113 portable. There I use glue for the assembly of the joint, soundbox and back collar piece, for the original six screws cannot be installed on the wedged joint. I keep them with the machine, and it is also reversible, installing the factory red rubber plain joint.
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv xxx 12" tabletop in oak... This morning!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:48 pm 
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Victor Monarch
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 4117
Location: Albany NY
Steve wrote:
No because the soundbox and winding handle will never match the machine and will probably cost more than it's worth to complete.



Unable to find a winding handle or a soundbox for a mass produced machine?


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