Deutsche Grammophon horn model..Monarch?

[nostalgia]

This gramophone came to my attention. It looks stunning, a real beauty, and it also looks very expensive and luxurious to me...
It's up for sale, for around 1000 euro, outside my reach really, but I still feel this is a good price?? I anyway wanted to show it, because it looks so beautiful.
Of course, as always, opinions are welcome:) Some information about the model would also be welcome and interesting. After googling some pics, I guess it is a kind of Monarch, and in reality a Victor model, manufactured in Germany by their German branch Deutsche Grammophon, or?
I was not able to find the exact same model when googling.....

[Inigo]

I'm not very in-game with these oldies, but I find something indefinably strange in this machine. It seems to have been completely refinished by severely stripping off its original finish. The mouldings look as sanded off too much, and the original stain has been lost.
The cannon brake is missing is lower plate; i would like to know how have they managed to squeeze the brake lever under the cannon, and its position is incorrect. The brake doesn't work, as you see they need to interpose a piece of some cloth to stop the tonearm. In itself this is not too bad as complete cannon brakes can be found.

[nostalgia]

I was able to find a somewhat similar model online, and the woodwork is made of golden oak. I did not know anything about this tree, but wikipedia says it is an evergreen oak species of Cyprus, I also found a few pics of another Deutsche Grammophon Monarch, and the golden oak woodwork on this gramophone seem to have a somewhat similar glow? http://www.phonophan.com/monarchgramophone.html

[Mormon S]

I hope this is not off topic, but I saw something very similar on Instagram a while back and have been wondering about it for a while. The biggest difference here is the corner columns.

Martin

[jamiegramo]

This is a DG Monarch from around 1904-5. I have seen a similar machine with a double-Spring motor which seems to be unique to Germany as in Britain they were only sold with either single or triple springs. The US equivalents like the Victor Monarch Special and D had only triple-spring motors. Anyway I was just curious as to which motor it has?...

The winding handle is repro and the wood does look stripped, at least partly, because in the last 3 pics the finish looks more original except to the top. At first I thought this had a larger upgraded horn but maybe this is just the angle of the photos...

The machine shown with the girl is from another Company, probably German, as it does not have the Victor/Gramo Co. bracket and tonearm parts etc. Like many others cases it is inspired by the original Victor MS design.

[epigramophone]

There is some colour variation in the pictures. The first three make the case look pale and stripped, but the rest make it look original.
In particular, picture 5 shows the original transfer still in place, so refinishing seems unlikely.

Pictures 2 and 3 clearly show where an ivorine plaque is missing.

The oversize horn was probably a period upgrade.

The soundbox appears to be damaged and in need of rebuilding.

At the time that this Monarch Senior was made, Deutsche Grammophon was affiliated to The Gramophone Company (HMV), not Victor.
HMV lost control of DG during WW1, but that is another story.

[nostalgia]

Interesting and valuable inputs, thank you.You really know your stuff:) When I first posted this morning, I was about to write that the horn looked like a tuba to me, but dropped writing it, avoiding appearing too silly;) If the horn is not original, I would still guess this lower the value of the gramophone? I also ask myself it the light conditions, or even the camera settings may cause the wood differences, or maybe parts of the wood has been treated some way..I have no experience whatsoever in this, so it is mere guessing. Yes, I would also love to see the motor, but I have not contacted the seller at all, since also 1000 euro is out of my reach now. Still, I of course ask myself..would you have bought it for 1000 euro if the motor looks original etc,and of course... if you had the money? For myself, I know far too little about how to appraise a gramophone to put my money into it, even if I still don't own a horn gramophone, with metal horn. I still think about the German Triumphon (in another thread)though, it is still not sold..and also is offered at a completeley different price that is more within my reach.

[Jerry B.]

It looks very similar to a Victor MS (Monarch Special) as found in the United States.

Jerry B.

[Steve]

Some DG machines were sold in very pale oak cases but as others have said I think this has been rubbed down a bit. Apart from the missing plaque and winder, it looks okay though. It's a great machine and has a superb horn. I think the price is fair.

[Inigo]

I must rectify my opinion about the brake. It is simply another version of the cannon brake, this one without the big lower plate shaped like a goat skin with the big round hole to house the lower cannon pin.

The attachment s-l300.jpg is no longer available

HMV/Victor cannon/bullet brake with the big lower plate

s-l300.jpg (12.83 KiB) Viewed 1810 times

This of yours is the other model with the small lower plate under the cannon support, sharing the same screws to hold both the cannon and the lower plate. Still, your goal grammophon is missing the other curved plate that should be located under the brake lever, protecting the wood underneath from scratching when acting the lever.

Bullet/cannon brake dissasembled