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 Post subject: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:46 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 1046
Hello all,

I have been quietly looking for a nice HMV 102 for a while - preferably in blue or red. I recently came across one and am thinking of buying it, but am concerned about the color of the handle and the black area around the decal. Is the color original, or is there a way to know? Judging from the screw in one of the pictures, the machine has definitely been tinkered with, but the seller says that it runs well. I would love to hear your thoughts! Also would this machine originally have come with a record tray?

Thanks so much!

Garret

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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:12 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1712
It is blue , the needle pot is blue ! yes decal is very odd though looks like a black interior painted over why that would be is a puzzle , I was always told these 102s were "export models" with no pad in the lid and the motor board flush with the edge of the box , I don't think I've seen a coloured export model in the UK they are usually black , but this link indicates they were available here

http://www.graham-ophones.co.uk/hmv-red ... 4581320882


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:18 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2757
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
"Made in Gt.Britain" below the trade mark confirms this to be an export model. Home market 102's do not have this wording.
The carrying handle is probably a replacement. Better replacements in blue are usually available on eBay at reasonable cost.

Like Soundgen, I have no explanation for the treatment of the lid interior. I am surprised that it got past quality control.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:42 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 758
Location: United Kingdom
According to the "His Masters' Gramophone" book, most of the 102Es were exported, but the rest were presumably available in England. I have one in red, which was purchased new in London in 1948 as a 21st birthday present to a relative. It too has "Made in Great Britain" under the HMV transfer in the lid. The blue one in the post was made in 1949, but the odd treatment of the transfer remains a mystery! Perhaps the factory was running short of blue lids, and decided to cover a black one, leaving the original transfer in place? Very much a "bodge" and I too am surprised it got past quality control! In answer to the question regarding the record tray, they were not supplied as standard by this time, but may still have been available as an "extra".


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:38 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
soundgen wrote:
It is blue , the needle pot is blue ! yes decal is very odd though looks like a black interior painted over why that would be is a puzzle , I was always told these 102s were "export models" with no pad in the lid and the motor board flush with the edge of the box , I don't think I've seen a coloured export model in the UK they are usually black , but this link indicates they were available here

http://www.graham-ophones.co.uk/hmv-red ... 4581320882


I'm not sure they're export models. I've certainly seen a number of 102s without the pad and flush motor boards and they have all been very late 102s, the last ones ever made.

Whatever the provenance of this one is I don't like the appearance of the decal in the lid. Even if it's right, you'd always have a problem convincing anyone if you ever came to sell it. It appears to be a blue covering over black but who really knows?

If Christopher sees this he will no doubt chime in.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:55 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 1046
Was the blue put on as a stain, or a paint? Do you all think the factory could have done it like this? I'm interested, but also don't want to inadvertently buy a tinkered with black one!

Many thanks,

Garret


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:43 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 1046
Could it be a heavily oxidized decal?

Here is another example with a similar looking decal: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/blue-hmv-102-picnic-gramophone-1783334580


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:49 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 758
Location: United Kingdom
No, I think it's the same material as the rest of the case, i.e. leathercloth. You can see a cut mark top right above the transfer. I honestly cannot believe this was done in the factory, HMV were very particular about their reputation as top quality merchandisers. Many of the 102s have a shadow round the transfer where the clear surround has discoloured, but nothing as obvious as this! Personally, I wouldn't even consider buying this machine, that bodge would annoy me every time I opened the lid!


Last edited by Phono48 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:50 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1712
It is a blue HMV 102 if the needle pot is blue which it looks like in your picture , the Blue is actually the colour of the covering and is not paint or stain , which make the logo with a black background difficult to understand, when looking closely at your picture it looks as though it could be a stuck on addition or even a black back with painting on it , if the latter perhaps it is a black 102 which has been painted although the blue does look the right colour and painting a case is difficult as all the fittings would need to be taken out and put , if you want it , it would be best to view it before buying , and lifting the motor board out to see if the fabric colour underneath is blue


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 Post subject: Re: Blue HMV 102 - Original Finish?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:03 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1712
Garret wrote:
Could it be a heavily oxidized decal?

Here is another example with a similar looking decal: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/blue-hmv-102-picnic-gramophone-1783334580



I think you are right , if you look at the Decal from Worthpoint and yours they are the identical background shape except yours is darker , the patch matches exactly even the strange slope on the right of the transfer


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