The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:22 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:51 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 753
Location: United Kingdom
Yes, the 112A and the 202 both have "double horns", in that from the base of the arm, the internal horn travels down almost to the front of the case, where it ends, but there is another outer horn that is wrapped around it, which comes back and forms the large opening at the back of the machine. On both these machines, the internal horn and the arm are mounted on a lever attached to the lid, so that as the lid is closed the horn and arm drop into the cabinet, and rise to the playing position when the lid is raised. However, there is a serious downside to the 202, which is that the socket where the arm joins the horn is made of pot metal, which over time expands and causes the arm to be loose. It often expands to the point where is falls apart completely, so the machine becomes almost useless. You will come across many examples where the socket has had a bodged repair, and I have scrapped many a 202 because they can rarely be repaired satisfactorily. The socket on the 112A is brass, so it not affected, but both machines have pot metal internal horns, which are prone to breakage at the point where the two horns are joined by the swivel point at the end nearest the front of the machine. The 201 has a similar problem with the arm socket, but the 109A has the brass version.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:18 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 378
Location: Madrid, Spain
Thanks for the explanation. Is there any audible difference between these two types of horn? Has anyone in the forum tested the same records played on either machine (109/201 against 112/202} to see if there is more volume, more bass, more clarity or crispiness in the sound?
Inigo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:44 am 
Offline
Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2707
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
On the 112a and the 202, the long alloy horn pivots on lugs at the narrow end of the tin horn. At this weak point the alloy is very thin, and the lugs can easily break away. Repair is possible but tricky. After sticking the broken parts back together, for which I use Super Glue, I drill through the entire assembly, pass a threaded rod through it which is then secured with nuts at either end.

Having done the job on a rare brown crocodile 112a I swore that I would never attempt it again, then along came an even rarer green crocodile 112a with the same problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:27 am 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 753
Location: United Kingdom
I also stick the broken bits together with superglue, then I use one of the fibreglass car body repair kits, which contain fibreglass bandage, and a two part liquid, which is mixed, and must be used rapidly. I wrap the fibreglass bandage round the horn, then brush the liquid on. Everything then sets rock hard in a minute or so. The same method of repair can also be applied to the other end, at the fragile arm socket, but it will always be very visible, and to my mind, unacceptable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:50 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 378
Location: Madrid, Spain
Thanks for the tips. The fiberglass bandage sounds interesting!
What about the sound of both horns?
Anybody has tested one against the other?
Inigo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:08 am 
Offline
Victor IV
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 1224
Location: South Carolina
A further update--I'm cleaning & conserving the machine. It won't need to be "Restored" so much as "Preserved" and, of course, brought up to date on maintenance.

The auto brake works. Thank you, everyone, I couldn't have done it without you. The metal ring was still wrapped round the spindle shaft, and the rubber/Bakelite collar was intact. So I stretched the ring back out, clipped it into the collar, and got the thing put together. It runs nicely now and is very simple to use.

I also did some work on the tone arm. It's been repaired in the past.

I have been polishing the brightwork on the machine with a Dremel, some expired Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish (wish I had Blue Magic again) and rouge. It is coming out very silvery indeed, though there is some corrosion--but I am polishing through that.

Some of the Rexine is separating on the front and will be glued down with a watered white glue. It's going to be an invisible repair.

The reproducer diaphragm mask is loose and I don't know if it's going to cause a buzz. Viva-Tonal parts are a new one to me.

Oh--and, I found some unused needles lying in the horn. I did crank it up and hear it--and it sounds lovely! What a real treat. It literally is "Like Life Itself," as the old advertisements say. Part of me now wants to rethink the plan to have Wyatt Markus look at the reproducer.



WHAT'S NEXT:
1. Treat wood motor-board & case exterior to shine again
2. Service No. 50 spring motor (which runs great, by the way.)
3. Bind new sleeves in old "Expanda" Album out of lid, so as to contain records
4. Figure out a way to bring the gold back to the old decal on said album lid.


I like this machine more the more I fix it, and there are 300 soft-tone Chamberlains on the way here so I should have plenty of needles to enjoy it.

Charles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grafonola 202 and lots of questions:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:16 am 
Offline
Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2707
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
4. On every Columbia 201/202 album I have seen, the gold transfer is far less bright and clear than the one inside the lid. If you discover a way of brightening it up, please share it with the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.