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 Post subject: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:54 am 
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Victor II
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Location: Anywhere the Wind blows
I came across this gramophone, and understand it is a French imported/made HMV, but apart from it I know less.
Can someone tell what motor is inside this gramophone? Is it a HMV 59?
I am currently restoring a green HMV 101, but after disassembling it, I discovered a few machine parts were missing.
I don't know if it would be sacrilege though, to use parts from this French gramophone, if they fit...
Also, I can't reason out what is this black part that resides between the tonearm and the horn entrance (needle tray?)?


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:24 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
These are French "Pathé" machines. I don't fully understand what the tie-up was between HMV and Pathé, but I have an identical one in red, but it has the British "His Masters' Voice" logo. The parts are not compatible with the 101, or any other British made HMV. The black thing is a needle pot which has been added later. It can't be original as it has no lid, therefore useless for a portable machine! The motor is not an HMV model, none of those had the winding handle in that position. The soundbox is not original.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
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Location: Vienna/Austria
This model is a normal, standard low tier french HMV portable, employing either Thorens parts or Pathé parts (hmv bought Pathé in 1928), non interchangeable with british hmv machines. Your machine is looking to be all original. The needle cup as well as the soundbox are original to the machine.
French as well as german and italian HMV did use non british parts on their low tier portable machines (eg. the Voce Del Padrone mod. 116 ) during the war, as supply by the factory Hayes was very limited.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
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Teak wrote:
This model is a normal, standard low tier french HMV portable, employing either Thorens parts or Pathé parts (hmv bought Pathé in 1928), non interchangeable with british hmv machines. Your machine is looking to be all original. The needle cup as well as the soundbox are original to the machine.
French as well as german and italian HMV did use non british parts on their low tier portable machines (eg. the Voce Del Padrone mod. 116 ) during the war, as supply by the factory Hayes was very limited.


It was Columbia, not HMV, which acquired Pathé in 1928. It was only when Columbia merged with HMV to form EMI in 1931 that Pathé and HMV came within the same group.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Victor II
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Thanks to everyone replying, I guess there was something to learn for more than myself too, which of course is good.
I will probably pass this grammophone, it is for sale for 100 euro, and I don't really feel a need for it, since I can't use parts from it,
and it also is a low tier gramophone compared to standard HMV models. It also has a broken spring...Meanwhile, I found a original HMV 101, with a broken no 4 soundbox, that I can use for my repairs. I can maybe get this for 20 euro only.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:55 am
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Location: Vienna/Austria
epigramophone wrote:
It was Columbia, not HMV, which acquired Pathé in 1928. It was only when Columbia merged with HMV to form EMI in 1931 that Pathé and HMV came within the same group.


:oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Victor III
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Please, don't salvage a wonderful 101 for parts... They sound great, and are a little marvel. Better try to repair the soundbox or look for a replacement, best of you can find an all-brass one.
Although I must tell you that I have got four no.4 soundboxes, the of them in operation and the fourth one as spare. Three of them are all-brass, and sound very good. But the best sounding one is the one in pot metal! Can you believe it?
If you finally get the 101 and decide to restore it, I could sell you a good no.4 soundbox, although I hate the idea of parting with it... :D
Inigo


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:34 pm 
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Victor II
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Hi Inigo:
One of the 101's need to be sacrificed, since the green 101 I bought during the summer miss two small parts in the area where the spring box is attached to the body of the motor, ( I don't know the names of these two parts right here and now, without rechecking the video I use for servicing the 101) but the green 101 will not be in order if I dont find these two parts.
I felt the black 101 that I now attach photos of, would be a good way to find these two parts, since I prefer repairing the green 101, instead of the black 101 shown here in this post (that I not yet have purchased). Thank you for your kind offer to sell me a number 4 soundbox:) The soundbox is not really the problem though. The green HMV pot metal no- 4 soundbox is broken where is supposed to attach the tonearn, at the tube area, but I feel I have discovered a way to repair it. I will post photos of the before and after when this repair work is done. As one can see on the photo of this black 101, the no 4 soundbox's diaphragm is broken, and maybe the needle bar, but that is something that is repairable, even if I not yet have repaired a mica diaphragm I now have the tools to do it, and it is an upcoming work during the next two weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:07 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2860
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
In case you are not aware of it, the HMV101 underwent several changes of motor during it's production run, so any donor machine needs to have the same motor as the recipient.
In date order the motors were 400 front wind, 410 side wind, 59 (the one with the metal cover) and 270 series.


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 Post subject: Re: Voix de son Maitre...question
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:57 am 
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Victor II
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 248
Location: Anywhere the Wind blows
Epigramophone: I was aware the 101 can have both sidewind and frontwind, but did not read my HMV book closely enough yet to know it also exist a 270 motor, so thanks for pointing that out. My green 101 has a 59 motor, I remember that from cleaning the parts last week. Is it possible to see from the attached photos of the black 101 if it has a 59 or 270/410 motor?
Also, I will post photos of my green 101, when I have taken some pics of it tomorrow, since it is now located in a small garage room I have been fortunate to be able to use for my repairs. I find the leatherette or outer cover of the green 101 to be of a different nature than my grey 101.
Without starting a new thread, I will also be very happy if someone have been able to trace new replacement screws for HMV soundboxes, and can tell where they bought these screws. I am missing 3 out of 4 srews to my red HMV 102, number 5B soundbox. I discovered this today, while preparing what's next on my gramophone service list for the next weeks.


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