Identification

[poppydop64+]

Good Morning
I am new here. I inherited this from a long time friend it was her fathers. He brought it back from India many years ago. He dies 20 years ago aged 100, so its must be old.
I would like to know more about it and also how to get rid of some rust on the metal arm at the back. It plays well. The horn is metal with some dents on the edges should I try and get them fixed? Im a scared to touch it to be honest as its so old. Any help would be grateful. I have no idea about this and neither did my friend other than her father used to play it to her in India as a child.
Many thanks

[poppydop64+]

Not sure why the photos are the wrong way around, sorry.

[epigramophone]

Welcome to the Forum.

This HMV Monarch case design is known to collectors as the "Cockleshell", because of it's carved shell motifs. On your machine the location of the brake, speed control and winding handle hole differ from British made examples I have seen, so it could have been made in HMV's Calcutta factory.

The horn appears to be of Swiss/German manufacture and is probably not the original, although with Indian machines one can never be sure as catalogues are hard to find. The soundbox is an HMV No.4 of later date, a common update to enable earlier machines to better play the new electrical records introduced from 1925.

For polishing plated components I use Solvol Autosol car chrome cleaner.

[poppydop64+]

Thank you for the reply. just to add on the needle it says Gramophone & Typewriter Ltd. There is a label with an angel sitting on a turntable on a gold background. So is this German or English? Thanks

[poppydop64+]

Sorry to be a nuisance can I buy any needles or are they specific to the model etc Thanks

[epigramophone]

The Gramophone & Typewriter Ltd was British and the forerunner of the company we now know as HMV. The word "Typewriter" was dropped from the company's title in 1907, so your machine which was introduced in about 1904 cannot be later than 1907. The "Recording Angel" trade mark was used before the company adopted "His Master's Voice".

Needles are not specific for any particular model and are easily available on eBay, usually in a choice of Soft, Medium or Loud tone, this being the only form of volume control other than literally "putting a sock in it". Many of us buy our needles from forum member "Soundgen" who has an excellent reputation.

[poppydop64+]

Im confused then if its before HMV does that mean the case is not a Monarch hmv model, I really dont know anything about this and have been trying to research but can never find any answers so I really appreciate your help.

[Steve]

Its a Gramophone & Typewriter "Monarch", yes, but as Roger has already said collectors refer to it as the Cockleshell Monarch.

The term "Monarch" originated with Victor Talking Machine Co., the sister company of "HMV" or G & T in the pre-"Gramophone Co." days. The only reason for the name change was due to the UK company dropping the sales of Lambert Typewriter.

[poppydop64+]

Thank you both for your help I know more than I did. Are there places that repair the horn edges or shall I just live with it. It does look a bit unloved I would like to have it on a stand but its quite tired looking. I shall buy the metal cleaner and hope that helps, its just the horn looks sad. Thank you again for all the information.

[epigramophone]

Only use metal polish on the plated components. If you use it on the horn it may remove some of the paint.

The consensus among collectors is to leave horns in their original finishes even if they are not in mint condition. A horn is only original once, and repainting should be seen as a last resort. I have cleaned horns successfully using a cloth moistened with White Spirit, followed when dry with an application of Baby Oil to preserve the finish and add lustre to it. I was sceptical about using baby Oil when it was recommended to me, but as you can see it worked :