Help needed to identify HMV table grand

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nostalgia
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Help needed to identify HMV table grand

Post by nostalgia »

I have bought this tabletop, planning to use it as a donor cabinet for my HMV tabletops and floor models, that need some dark oak/veneer parts replacements etc. When I bought it I was pretty sure it is a Model 6 (T.B.B.O.), and reading that this model was manufactured in big numbers, I felt it was perfect to use as a donor machine.
It has a 32 motor ( motor is marked 32), and the soundbox obviously have been changed during the years, but what puzzles me is the decal and its position, that does not match the photos I have of Model 6. I of course want to be absolutely sure that I don't tear apart a HMV machine that should instead have been saved for the future. :roll:

Update: After using a looking glass on the photo of Model 6 (T.B.B.O.) on page 176 in the His Master's Gramophone book, also the tonearm base to me looks different than on this machine...
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Last edited by nostalgia on Sat May 02, 2020 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oedipus
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Re: Help needed to identify HMV tabletop

Post by Oedipus »

Yes, it is a Model 6, but it is later than the light oak one (6.11) on page 176 or HMG. If you look at the box alongside that picture, you will see that it says, of the tone-arm, '...(Pressed steel pivot replaced cast iron by 1920)'. The sound box would originally have been an Exhibition, but it was common in the later 1920s for people to update these early machines with a more modern sound box. Te position of the Nipper transfer has no bearing on the model number; it merely reflects changing practice from year to year at the factory.

With a 32 motor, it would be 1921 or later, probably a TBDO. Have you looked underneath? There should be a label with the designation, and possibly even a date!

Incidentally, a 'table top' is a piece of wood (or other flat material) on legs. This kind of gramophone is called a 'table grand'.

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nostalgia
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Re: Help needed to identify HMV tabletop

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you for explaining about the decals, that the position of the decal only reflects changing practice from year to year at the factory, and also explaining that this model is a table grand, and not a table top. I will for sure add that to my expanding English vocabulary, that really has developed quite a lot during the last year on this forum:)
Thank you also for stating that it is a Model 6, I have found only one label on the machine, and am attaching a copy of it here in this post. Now knowing it is a Model 6, it will serve as the donor machine it was meant to be. I will not start asking about the letter coding on these machines, it is maybe also covered in the HMG book for what I know.
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gramophoneshane
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Re: Help needed to identify HMV table grand

Post by gramophoneshane »

Down here we tend to call them all table "models".

Was HMV the only company who referred to their models as "grands"?
Looking through their machine catalogues, it appears very strange (to me) that they refer to console models as "horizontal grands".

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Re: Help needed to identify HMV table grand

Post by epigramophone »

gramophoneshane wrote:Down here we tend to call them all table "models".

Was HMV the only company who referred to their models as "grands"?
Looking through their machine catalogues, it appears very strange (to me) that they refer to console models as "horizontal grands".
In their 1929 catalogue UK Columbia used the term "Table Grand" for all their table models, large and small.

Oedipus
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Re: Help needed to identify HMV table grand

Post by Oedipus »

Thank you for the photo of the Registered Design label. Sadly, that is often the only label on these late models (further confirmation that this probably dates from 1922), and is not very helpful, although the letters T.B. at the top confirm that it is a 6. Yes, the codes are explained in HMG, and examples of the labels are shown as well. The codes are useful in identifying a particular variation of a model. T=Table Grand, B=the second model up (in price) from the basic one. (The TA was ony offered in the UK for a brief period in 1914, but may have had a longer life in export markets).

The final letter indicates the wood, O for Oak, M for Mahogany. When there are four letters, the third is 'mark' number, indicating a change from the previous version. So TBAO would be the first change, TBDO the fourth.

'Table Model' is a common term here, too, and, unlike 'Tabletop', was in use in the days when these gramophones were current. It is less specific than 'Table Grand', which refers to a machine with an enclosed horn and a lid.

Why The Gram Co called consoles Horizontal Grands I don't know, but it is probably because at the time they introduced them, they reckoned British buyers would not understand the term 'Console', which normally means the part of an organ where the organist sits! In the later 1920s, the 'console' style of gramophone became very popular and there were some really nasty ones at the cheaper end of the trade. With the advent of radiograms, where the shape was less restricted, the distinction between a pedestal and a console became blurred, and all floor-standing models tended to be called consoles.

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