UP FOR SALE: Is this an EMG conversion?

[Garret]

Is this an EMG conversion? It strikes me as homemade with its apparent retention of the HMV tone arm?

Link: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 7603fa0c98

[Inigo]

Seems what you say... an emg conversion would carry an ivorine plate or something... That name seen in the depths of the case could be the original seller?

[epigramophone]

By no means all EMG and Expert machines and conversions carry an ID plaque.

This is a converted HMV Lumiere Model 460 (see HMG Page 187) to which an HMV tonearm from a Model 461 has been added to match the other gold plated fittings. It's lid transfer appears to have been deliberately obscured to disguise it's origins.
I know of no firm other than EMG who could have installed the internal conduit and (missing) horn, but their tonearms were not gold plated and would have detracted from the appearance of the machine.
The soundbox, hopefully by EMG, is difficult to see in the picture. Whatever it is, it appears to be made of brass which does not clash with the gold plated tonearm.

[Steve]

Not an EMG soundbox, not an EMG conduit, not an EMG anything!

It's a fairly well done, convincing home-made conversion of an HMV 460 to an "EMG style" gramophone by way of an HMV 32. The missing horn was probably a Mark 8 or Panharmonic Wilson horn (which were available from Scientific Supplies Co.). Knowing some older (now passed away) CLPGS members it might have conceivably been converted as recently as the 1980's with a "hands-on" collector using up a redundant Lumiere case, some spare parts and possibly a home-made "EMG" horn. There were quite a few home-made devices conjured up during this time!

[Curt A]

Pics:

Screenshot 2023-08-18 at 1.22.12 PM.png (146.88 KiB) Viewed 712 times

Screenshot 2023-08-18 at 1.22.32 PM.png (91.47 KiB) Viewed 712 times

[Oedipus]

The original seller of this 460 was probably R.J. Heath & Sons, of 76 Queen Street, Cardiff. (I agree that it probably was a 460, not a 461, from the brake lever.)

I agree that there is nothing of EMG here, apart from some inspiration and, possibly, the missing horn. The tone arm could have come from a 461, or a 201, or a 192, or a 266, or a 511,and so on. Its position in relation to the horn socket shows that the two are not connected by an EMG conduit. Nor do I see anything from a Model 32 there -- yes, it will have a 32 motor, but the Model 32 has a 34 motor!)

But what about the spare 'needle heads'? could be a whole boxful of EMG sound boxes...

[Steve]

The original seller of this 460 was probably R.J. Heath & Sons, of 76 Queen Street, Cardiff. (I agree that it probably was a 460, not a 461, from the brake lever.)

I agree that there is nothing of EMG here, apart from some inspiration ...... nor do I see anything from a Model 32 there -- yes, it will have a 32 motor, but the Model 32 has a 34 motor!)

But what about the spare 'needle heads'? could be a whole boxful of EMG sound boxes...

As you appear to agree with me that the visible conduit obviously isn't an EMG component, I was simply theorising that the hidden conduit might conceivably be from an HMV 32, unless like the visible part, that is also home-made!

I think the likelihood of the needle heads being EMG is probably up there with the auctioneers adding an EMG horn to the sale which got missed on the first go round! It's a welcome thought though.