Decca 'Deccalian' "Cellarette" gramophone genuine?

[Lah Ca]

And there is what we might call (clothing) sleeve/button wear on the finish in the area defined by the rotation of the crank. If the machine is a fake, it has either been used extensively for a long time or someone has cleverly gone to a lot of trouble to counterfeit the wear.

Is that not just UV damage where it's been sat partially in a window reveal / bay window? It looks sun bleached and heat damaged to me rather than scuffed by hands / clothing.

Quite probably you are correct. I did not think of of years and years of exposure to sunlight.

[Oedipus]

Why would it be a fake?

The Deccalians were a range of high quality period style cabinet models incorporating the Decca reflector principle, around 1922. The Wine-Cooler model is not in the only Deccalian catalogue I have seen, but another example was sold at Christie's in February 1974 (48 guineas - those were the days). It was dated 4.7.22. I suppose it could be the same one (the damage to the polish on the lower right hand side must have happened since). I wonder if this one has a date under the turntable?

[Steve]

Why would it be a fake?

The Deccalians were a range of high quality period style cabinet models incorporating the Decca reflector principle, around 1922. The Wine-Cooler model is not in the only Deccalian catalogue I have seen, but another example was sold at Christie's in February 1974 (48 guineas - those were the days). It was dated 4.7.22. I suppose it could be the same one (the damage to the polish on the lower right hand side must have happened since). I wonder if this one has a date under the turntable?

Thanks for confirming there might possibly be another one out there although there might not be either! I think you've sort of answered your own question, why would it be a fake? I don't think anyone truly believes that someone has attempted to defraud someone by creating a "fake" but with there only being one other known example, which you have admitted might indeed be this one (in which instance, scrub that comment) AND it's not in the catalogue, questions should and will rightly be asked.

Above anything else, it looks plain wrong to me, whether it's right or not. The framing around the motorboard looks off and unnecessarily unbalanced, which if this was purpose made, it needn't be, but I could ask what was the purpose of the model? I also think the cabinetry work around the Dulciflex doesn't appear to match the rest of it. Maybe I'm too critical?

Yes, Decca produced some very high quality machines - I think I'm on record generally in this forum championing Decca machines in general - but putting that machine inside a faux Georgian cellarette makes little sense. There is a great void in that cabinet which cannot be used for records or even needle tins / spares. It's sarcophagus appearance will no doubt scare a few people off too!

It's a strange curiosity either way. I'm not surprised it wasn't a runaway success.

[Steve]

I wonder if the winning bidder (£680 plus comms) was a member here? Either way, allowing for inflation, it made more than the one at Christies 50 years ago.

[epigramophone]

Why would it be a fake?

The Deccalians were a range of high quality period style cabinet models incorporating the Decca reflector principle, around 1922. The Wine-Cooler model is not in the only Deccalian catalogue I have seen, but another example was sold at Christie's in February 1974 (48 guineas - those were the days). It was dated 4.7.22. I suppose it could be the same one (the damage to the polish on the lower right hand side must have happened since). I wonder if this one has a date under the turntable?

Wise words from Oedipus, in marked contrast to the speculative and in some cases foolish posts from the doubters and detractors.
Now that I am the new owner, it is time for me to add a few words of my own.

I began by searching for and reading everything I could find about Deccalian. Most of what I found was written by Oedipus some years ago, and was sufficient to confirm my belief that the machine was genuine.

My next step was to attend the auction preview, a little over 20 miles from my home, to examine the machine. What I found was exactly what I expected to find. A totally original and untouched Deccalian dating from the early 1920's. The only fault was the broken soundbox, clearly visible on the website pictures, so I took a couple of my own soundboxes, plus records and needles. The machine played well on test. There was no date under the turntable, so the example which sold in 1974 may still be out there.

I attended the auction in person, and won it against stiff on line competition. Since this is almost certainly the first example of this model to be auctioned in 50 years, the hammer price of £680 (£843.20 all in) must now be the benchmark. Find another!

If anyone has any Deccalian documentation, especially a catalogue illustration of the Cellarette model, please share it here.

[CarlosV]

Now that I am the new owner, it is time for me to add a few words of my own.

Congratulations, Roger! You got a rarity, and a high quality one. Buying such rarities require what you did - a close examination in person. Now please post photos of it for us to enjoy!

[Steve]

See below

[Steve]

I think Roger's rather blunt and dismissive comment on the thread and its contributors, but no doubt aimed squarely at me, is rather sad and regretful. Moving on......

Yes, I agree with Carlos a close inspection in person is important and as much as I pushed the auctioneers for additional photos and responses in the meantime, the end result was not worth the effort. A few very dark photos that appeared to contradict the earlier pictures were not especially enlightening or conclusive.

I didn't have the benefit of seeing it firsthand as I'm not 20 miles away and getting to the auction would have been difficult on the one day I'm not working but as hard as I tried in the limited time available to do my research (and I work full-time), I could not find any information on this model or any pre-war Deccalians, only the electric portable versions!

I already own two of the floor standing variety with the same identical innards too, hence my interest and reason for starting this thread. The Christies example would not exactly have been common knowledge. Indeed I bet many readers of this forum weren't even born when the previous one sold! Oedipus would know about it as he was in charge of the department that sold it but let's be honest, how many other people would know about that one?

Anyway, whilst I may not have been 100% convinced of its origins, the forever happy sceptic I might be, I was determined to have a go at it as I knew it was rare either way and I have many other Decca machines. No one needs to convince me about the quality of Decca / Deccalian unless they've never seen me comment on them previously!

The fact that I was the under-bidder probably speaks for itself. It didn't appear there was much interest from other buyers over £85 so it appears Roger and I were locking horns for the last £600. I did wonder if Roger might be interested as it was local to him and his absence from the thread could have been read that way, keeping his cards close to his chest, the wise man! Alternatively it might not have been of any interest at all. Who knew? Not me.

Anyway, congratulations, Roger. You won it fair and square. Had I not bought other machines this week I might have battled on further so be grateful for that at least!

[epigramophone]

Thank you for your kind words, gentlemen.
My criticism was not directed at any individual, but at all those who posted ill-founded opinions on a machine which they knew nothing about. The existence of the Cellarette, or Wine Cooler Deccalian, was mentioned in Christopher Proudfoot's book "Collecting Phonographs and Gramophones". At the time of it's publication it was probably the only practical reference book available to the British collector, and although long out of print is still worth buying secondhand.
There will not be much progress to report for a while, as our home is undergoing major energy improvements and my workshop will not be easily accessible until the electricians have moved out.
I have however found the tattered remains of an ID label, not under the turntable but under the bottom panel. It bears Serial Number 75067, and below that I can just about see "Wine Cooler". The label is dated 4/7/22, the same as the example reported by Oedipus.
I wonder what the Serial Number was on that one? Might I have rediscovered the machine which sold in 1974?

Roger.

[poodling around]

Noting some of the sentiments expressed in this thread and simply for future reference, I declare that when appraisement is considered absolutely necessary, I generally prefer my contributions to this forum to be described as either 'inane', 'vacuous' or 'ludicrous'.