musical treasures of miami

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HisMastersVoice
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by HisMastersVoice »

welshfield wrote:
If his machines sell at a premium price, that's a good thing.
I do not agree with this. Unless you are in the business of "buying low/selling high" these extravagant prices ruin the hobby.
Hardly.

There are plenty of lower priced machines for those who want to scour Craigslist, farm auctions, estate sales, and grandma's attic for a deal. Personally, I like finding machines in original condition, cleaning them up, etc. It's not difficult to understand that there are people who don't.

Same with records, there are those who enjoy hovering over crates for hours searching for records, while some people know exactly what they want and have no interest in the hunt, so turn to a dealer that has already traveled to shows, sorted through the countless crates, cataloged, sleeved, and graded the record for you. Obviously, that record will be more expensive than that same copy you spent all day at Union searching for. Practically anything that is sold by any retailer (antique shop, dealer, etc) is going to be more expensive than if you found it yourself. That's just the way it works.

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Steve
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by Steve »

Lastly, I think it is important that every antique seller must keep in mind that absolutely nobody in the world actually NEEDS anything that we sell. "Need" is in the perception of the buyer, who wishes to satisfy his urges and desires. With that in mind, I steer away from complainers and curmudgeons, and nasty folk, who have long lost the ability to derive pleasure from their chosen hobby, and look for people who will smile and thank me for their acquisition, as I have always done when buying nice antiques. These are treasures should be appreciated, never demeaned....there is a smile waiting for each and every one of them, somewhere.....
There's also an argument in saying that the more you pay for something, the more likely you are to be extremely careful with it and treasure it for the long-term. In the UK the hobby was seemingly over-run 25-40 years ago with mean little misers and "curmudgeons" who got things for next to nothing. Some of the collections that have come up for sale in the past 10 years, from the first real generation of collectors, appear to provide evidence of this. Now that many, if not all, have passed on, it goes to show how little they really appreciated these "cheapies and freebies". So much stuff has been poorly stored in old leaking garages, attics and outhouses because the previous custodian had little financial investment in it. This is a terrible shame and waste. NO doubt a nagging wife or two contributed to the decision to house machines in less than desirable conditions. That, and the "lonely old man syndrome" personified by those who simply hoard stuff. They even make TV programs about these people today! :roll:

I have never bought anything cheaply. However I cannot wear this as a badge of honour, as like most other collectors, I would have preferred to have had the opportunity to acquire things much much more cheaply. I simply never had the choice. However my determination to buy exactly what I want when I want it, and yes as Raphael rightly stated, not anything I really NEEDED, comes at a heavy price that I have been willing to pay.
Last edited by Steve on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

gramophone78
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by gramophone78 »

HisMastersVoice wrote:
welshfield wrote:
If his machines sell at a premium price, that's a good thing.
I do not agree with this. Unless you are in the business of "buying low/selling high" these extravagant prices ruin the hobby.
That's just the way it works.
In each and every hobby out there..... ;) :lol:.

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Zeppy
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by Zeppy »

raphael wrote:I don't see why you need to insult any hard-working seller (i.e. Neelam) by calling him "greedy". I can only speak for myself, but I work at this 24/7 - it is a world-wide business through all time zones. I often find myself answering emails to Australia, China, etc. at 3AM. And without your knowledge of all the real costs a full-time seller incurs (inventory, advertising, warehousing, insurance, travel, etc.) combined with a factual knowledge of actual realized prices, how can you say "extravagant prices"?
\
I think there are many of us who have choice words for the "hard-working seller Neelam." There is a dramatic difference between charging a premium for high quality machines backed with your guarantee than what Neelam activities. The machine's you've put on eBay are high end machines in excellent condition, or very high end restorations. Sure, a person could hunt around for similar machines, that have been locked away in a basement, and need serious work, and they might even get those machines at a bargain. However, there are some people who just want a particular machine and are less interested in spending a decade searching dusty barns to find one that will take another year of restoration. As you have said, you would rather take a loss than have a bad experience sully your reputation.

The issue many of us have with Neelam is that from all appearance, taking a loss is the last thing he will ever do, or for that matter, even settling for less than what he things is his proper price. His machines, for the most part are nothing that extraordinary. Just your average horn machines. Vic 1, 2, 3s, the odd M, P, or E. Their condition tends to be good...but again nothing extreme. He lists his machines at over inflated prices that generally don't sell, and when that fails, rather than settling for less than his expected price, he parts the machine out. It's the parting of a perfectly good machine that rubs most people here the wrong way. Everyone is entitled to try to sell something for price they feel they want. There's been some guy trying to sell a serious beat up VV-50 for between $1500 and $3000 for the past 5 years (seems the price is going up with time too). I'm sure most of us laugh at him from our computers, but hey, it's his machine to do with as he pleases. It's the parting out that we object to.

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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by ambrola »

I have mixed feelings about nice machines getting parted out also. I don't like it.
Raphael does not sell parted out anything, and is a class act. If you buy something from him, he will stand behind it forever. I have bought from him and sold to him. I also got a tounge lashing from him, but I am man enough to know I was wrong and admit it. We all wish we could have a collection such as his. I would give my left n@t to have that Hexaphone.

welshfield
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by welshfield »

Raphael: I neither intended or, as best I can see, did insult you by saying you "somehow manage to attract a rare, high-end buyer." My comments regarding neelam however stand.
John

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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by Moooperator »

... I would give my left n@t to have that Hexaphone.
Now a kidney... that might be a good trade. But he'd be nuts to swap with your original offer!

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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by Valecnik »

Raphael has offered, continues to offer several machines that, if I had the space and money for them, would be in my house right now. Nothing wrong with selling high quality machines at retail prices.

The other indvividual who routinely parts out complete, clean, original, often pretty rare machines, machines that have remained entact, unaltered for a hundred years or more, is a different matter. Arguably , what he does may be none of my business. Certainly, while he does it, he'll get none of my business.

Edisone
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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by Edisone »

I appreciate the good photos provided by MTOM, and thank him for those. Even though I can't afford the machines, seeing clear pictures of them is always pleasant and often enlightening!

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Re: musical treasures of miami

Post by soundgen »

Valecnik wrote:Raphael has offered, continues to offer several machines that, if I had the space and money for them, would be in my house right now. Nothing wrong with selling high quality machines at retail prices.

The other indvividual who routinely parts out complete, clean, original, often pretty rare machines, machines that have remained entact, unaltered for a hundred years or more, is a different matter. Arguably , what he does may be none of my business. Certainly, while he does it, he'll get none of my business.

His customers seem to be happy !

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... &items=200

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