Real or Reproduction?

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fran604g
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Re: Real or Reproduction?

Post by fran604g »

JerryVan wrote:
Phonolair wrote:
fran604g wrote:I know less than nothing as to the validity of any machining techniques that may have been employed in the manufacturing of the originals, however, one thing that immediately jumps out at me is the beveled edge on the left image. That could be a significant clue to the authenticity of the one in question.

Best,
Fran
The beveled edge pointed out in the picture is correct and original.

If you compare different Concert reproducers you will see that this bevel runs from almost non existent to pronounced as in the picture of the Concert reproducer in question.

I would guess the difference in bevels is related to how the original machines were set up after tool changes or tool breakage.

Larry Crandell

Exactly. While they didn't have CNC equipment back then, they did have machines for making production runs. Turret lathes and automatic screw machines could turn out parts in very fast succession. As Larry mentions, the set-up of these machines was not 100% repeatable and was left somewhat to the set-up guy, who usually differed from the actual operator. Also, the product of one individual machine may vary slightly from the product of another, again due to small set-up variations.
Yep. I've used turret lathes, manual vertical and horizontal mills, 3-axis CNC vertical mills, and a couple of turning centers. I could really bang some stuff out on my old Warner-Swasey #3, once I had it all set up with tooling and stops. I loved running that old machine, and thought it was a lot more fun than the CNC's I programmed, setup, and ran. :D

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Fran
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Django
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Re: Real or Reproduction?

Post by Django »

Phonolair wrote:
fran604g wrote:I know less than nothing as to the validity of any machining techniques that may have been employed in the manufacturing of the originals, however, one thing that immediately jumps out at me is the beveled edge on the left image. That could be a significant clue to the authenticity of the one in question.

Best,
Fran
The beveled edge pointed out in the picture is correct and original.

If you compare different Concert reproducers you will see that this bevel runs from almost non existent to pronounced as in the picture of the Concert reproducer in question.

I would guess the difference in bevels is related to how the original machines were set up after tool changes or tool breakage.

Larry Crandell
I hate to, but I do disagree. I believe that the chamfer is centered and that it is the perspective of the photo that gives the illusion of the off-center chamfer, (if you tip a cone, that is what it looks like). It also seems that you should be able to see the end face of the tube as you do on other examples. Precision and repeat-ability existed long before cnc machines came along and the skill level and pride in workmanship before cnc machines was much higher than any time since. Eldridge Johnson was a machinist first. Based on the raised lettering, modern numerals on the serial number, different serial number marked on the bottom of the box, small thru bore and chamfer with no tube showing I suspect that this is a very good reproduction.

JerryVan
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Re: Real or Reproduction?

Post by JerryVan »

Django wrote:
Phonolair wrote:
fran604g wrote:I know less than nothing as to the validity of any machining techniques that may have been employed in the manufacturing of the originals, however, one thing that immediately jumps out at me is the beveled edge on the left image. That could be a significant clue to the authenticity of the one in question.

Best,
Fran
The beveled edge pointed out in the picture is correct and original.

If you compare different Concert reproducers you will see that this bevel runs from almost non existent to pronounced as in the picture of the Concert reproducer in question.

I would guess the difference in bevels is related to how the original machines were set up after tool changes or tool breakage.

Larry Crandell
I hate to, but I do disagree. I believe that the chamfer is centered and that it is the perspective of the photo that gives the illusion of the off-center chamfer, (if you tip a cone, that is what it looks like). It also seems that you should be able to see the end face of the tube as you do on other examples. Precision and repeat-ability existed long before cnc machines came along and the skill level and pride in workmanship before cnc machines was much higher than any time since. Eldridge Johnson was a machinist first. Based on the raised lettering, modern numerals on the serial number, different serial number marked on the bottom of the box, small thru bore and chamfer with no tube showing I suspect that this is a very good reproduction.
Nobody said the chamfer was off-center.

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Django
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Re: Real or Reproduction?

Post by Django »

Now I feel more foolish than usual. Here is an original Concert, chamfer and all. I also saw one online with what appeared to be the more modern numerals, the first being a 4. It was too fuzzy to know for sure so I am back in the undecided, leaning toward original camp. The lettering on the face of one of the reproducers below looks like it could also be slightly raised. one possible explanation could be that the reproducers that were sold with machines may have been slightly different than the ones sold as replacements or upgrades. Just a guess.
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victor-long-throat-concert-reproducer-and-wooden_1_929ebd61b275003223ab4a61ab863165.jpg (14.66 KiB) Viewed 722 times
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whitedogfive
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Re: Real or Reproduction?

Post by whitedogfive »

Font size on the serial numbers look different to me.

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