First floor model Victrola XI from 1912 in Machines

[fran604g]

Congratulations, Nate, on your very handsome Victrola. It looks beautiful!

Best,
Fran

[NateO]

Thanks for posting those photos, Nate. What a sweetheart that Victrola is! Just look at the width of the board upon which the lock is mounted. The dark mossy green turntable felt. The numbered record slats. The smallish horn with the goofy casting robbing what little space there is. And of course that big circular motor plate. And no collector has taken out that motor to complete a Victor!

George P.

It really is a sweetheart! I think my favorite features on this machine are the darker turntable felt, and the mahogany. Compared to my VV-105, which is a brown mahogany, this VV-XI is a very nice and vivid shade of red. I find the goofy horn casting makes it a little more endearing as well.

The numbered record slats are look quite nice, but I don't tend to prefer them. They serve their purpose well enough, but I tend to prefer the later flat shelving.

I believe the earliest ones did not have the automatic brake. Mine does not have the automatic, but the tab brake. I read in Look For the Dog, the automatic brake came out in 1913. Were these retrofitted at the factory for the early ones?
Harvey Kravitz

It looks like my example has always has the automatic brake fitted. I don't see any evidence that it was ever fitted with the tab brake. I would guess Victor started fitting the XI with the automatic brake in 1913 when that feature came out. How early is your VV-XI?

Congratulations, Nate, on your very handsome Victrola. It looks beautiful!

Thank you Fran! I'm proud to own it. I can't take any credit for it's good looks, however. George did a wonderful job cleaning it up before I brought it home, for which I am very appreciative!

[Henry]

Speaking of different horn configurations, as mentioned by EarlH, on my 1917 XI (G) the horn opening is a bit narrower than on Nate's. On his, the outer edges of the big doors and the horn doors line up, but on the G cabinet the horn doors are set in about 1" from the legs on each side, and the G doors are taller than Nate's; this obvious difference shows up when you compare the height of the keyhole panel pieces in each model. The horn door opening measures 8.5" x 14" on my G, and the keyhole panel is 2.25" from the top of the horn door cutout to the lip on the underside of the lid frame. I'd be interested to see the corresponding dimensions on the B.

[NateO]

Speaking of different horn configurations, as mentioned by EarlH, on my 1917 XI (G) the horn opening is a bit narrower than on Nate's. On his, the outer edges of the big doors and the horn doors line up, but on the G cabinet the horn doors are set in about 1" from the legs on each side, and the G doors are taller than Nate's; this obvious difference shows up when you compare the height of the keyhole panel pieces in each model. The horn door opening measures 8.5" x 14" on my G, and the keyhole panel is 2.25" from the top of the horn door cutout to the lip on the underside of the lid frame. I'd be interested to see the corresponding dimensions on the B.

I'm more tham happy to provide the dimensions for the XI (B).

The horn opening measures 6" x 15", and the keyhole panel measures 3.125" high from the horn door cutout to the lip.

[Henry]

Thanks, Nate! So the B horn opening is 90 in.sq., and the G is 119 in. sq. IOW, the B opening is about 75% of the G. Wonder what was the size on the final version of the XI? Seems they just kept getting bigger and bigger.

[NateO]

You're welcome Henry! I would be interested in knowing what the horn size on the last version of the XI is as well. Hopefully someone on the forum owns one and can take some measurements.

[EarlH]

Back in the 70s and early 80s I had a few of these early Victrolas (various models) in admittedly rough cabinets. A phonograph dealer (who is still in business) would make me strong offers on these machines, and I sold some of them to him over the years. At some point, I was visiting his place and asked where these Victrolas were. That's when he told me he was completing Victors with the Victrola motors. He was always on the lookout for 10" turntables too.

I've never attempted this, but I've heard stories from others (including Jerry Blais) regarding this activity, so I must surmise that it's true.

George P.

I have the motor to one of those early XI's on my kitchen table right now and I measured that space between the casting and where the turntable shaft sets, and they are both the same! Right at 3 ⅝" more or less, so it is something to do with the shaft, where the drive pin for the turntable is located and the length of the part that hangs down under the turntable. In the next few days, I can pull the shaft out of my III and see what it looks like compared to the shaft that in the XI and also I have a turntable shaft loose from an L-door Victrola right now and compared them to see what the difference is. But I know that shaft on the XVI and the XI are the same except for where the drive pin is located, and how far down the part that hangs down from the bottom of the turntable. So maybe a 10" turntable is all you need. I never really had much reason to mess around with them like this myself and know that I got that motor back because he couldn't make it work for his machine. This has been an interesting discussion on what is really a Victrola that most people wouldn't pay much attention to. Especially when space gets to be an issue!

[Phonofreak]

Mine is in the 11,000s range. It's put away right now. Hope this helps.
Harvey Kravitz

Thanks for posting those photos, Nate. What a sweetheart that Victrola is! Just look at the width of the board upon which the lock is mounted. The dark mossy green turntable felt. The numbered record slats. The smallish horn with the goofy casting robbing what little space there is. And of course that big circular motor plate. And no collector has taken out that motor to complete a Victor!

George P.

It really is a sweetheart! I think my favorite features on this machine are the darker turntable felt, and the mahogany. Compared to my VV-105, which is a brown mahogany, this VV-XI is a very nice and vivid shade of red. I find the goofy horn casting makes it a little more endearing as well.

The numbered record slats are look quite nice, but I don't tend to prefer them. They serve their purpose well enough, but I tend to prefer the later flat shelving.

I believe the earliest ones did not have the automatic brake. Mine does not have the automatic, but the tab brake. I read in Look For the Dog, the automatic brake came out in 1913. Were these retrofitted at the factory for the early ones?
Harvey Kravitz

It looks like my example has always has the automatic brake fitted. I don't see any evidence that it was ever fitted with the tab brake. I would guess Victor started fitting the XI with the automatic brake in 1913 when that feature came out. How early is your VV-XI?

Congratulations, Nate, on your very handsome Victrola. It looks beautiful!

Thank you Fran! I'm proud to own it. I can't take any credit for it's good looks, however. George did a wonderful job cleaning it up before I brought it home, for which I am very appreciative!

[Jerry B.]

The motors from many early Victrolas mounted to metal plates are very similar to a Victor III or IV motor. About the only obstacle is the spindle shaft being too short. Once that shaft is lengthened,it is usable in a Victor horn machine. I suspect the shaft was shortened and the motor mounted to the plate to save space between the horn and motor in Victrolas. I am guilty, as George suspected, but only of using motors from junk or damaged Victrolas. Of course the evaluation of what makes a junker is subjective but I plead "Not Guilty!" to dismantling good Victrolas for parts. I heard many first generation collectors state that the only reason to buy a Victrola was for the parts. Jerry Blais

[phonogfp]

I am guilty, as George suspected, but only of using motors from junk or damaged Victrolas. Of course the evaluation of what makes a junker is subjective but I plead "Not Guilty!" to dismantling good Victrolas for parts. I heard many first generation collectors state that the only reason to buy a Victrola was for the parts. Jerry Blais

Jerry, I never suspected that you were personally involved in this activity - - only that you were aware that it went on. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear on that point.

Best,
George P.