The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Victor I
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Greg
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 113
I'm going to pick up a Victrola X with a bad finish tomorrow, with hopes of restoring it. The only thing missing is the data plate. I'm thinking about trying to find one to replace it. I'm curious, what are your opinions on this practice? Is it wrong to add a plate that isn't original?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2978
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
If it's an original tag from an original machine, why not? It beats having an orphan tag and an orphan machine floating around and who knows, maybe the tag you get will be the one that originally went on your machine... I don't think it matters...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5103
Location: Albany, Oregon
I agree with Curt. Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Victor I
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Greg
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 113
Thanks for your replies! I agree with Curt that it's better to have them together than two orphaned pieces, I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't a no-no in the community.

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5103
Location: Albany, Oregon
It might be confusing down the road if it were a rare machine but it's not. It is a classic Victrola that needs a name plate. I just checked my spares and I've got a IX, XI, and 90 so I can't help you. I bet one of the other phono nerds will come to the rescue. Anyone?

Probably something we all should do is leave a note with the machine describing any major work or changes we've done.

Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
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Location: Delaware
I think especially with the VV-X it would be important to be somewhat in the serial number range for the specific version of the X. It would be really confusing things if a spider leg VV-X ended up with a late VV-X tag, or one from an early table-top. Otherwise I think it's ok to add a tag that fits the machine.

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Victor I
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Greg
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 113
I agree. It’s a floor model X so I’m going to get a close as possible, using various things such as record storage slats, speed indicator and motor type to date it and find a serial tag to match


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
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Location: Belmont, North Carolina
If you think of it this way... someone in the factory grabbed a tag randomly from a box or whatever and attached it to the next machine to come around and he did that day after day. No one knows if the machines were lined up in some chronological order of production or randomly pulled from a room of completed machines... so unless it's a machine that was only produced for a short time in a particular year, it doesn't really make a difference. So many alterations have been made to machines in the past 100+ years that have escaped scrutiny and God only knows what will happen to them in the next 100 years, I think it's a moot point...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 782
From first hand experience, that kind of thing can really mess up somebody trying to study the machines down the road. (Also, if you were a buyer down the road, wouldn't you want to know that the original serial number was missing?) That said, I'd probably do my best to match up a close numbered plate, but I'd make a note of what I did and keep it inside the case. If you do that, Nut cases like me will thank you in future years. ;)

Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Replacing an ID tag
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2978
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Take any machine you have in your possession and tell me that you know and can prove without a doubt that the tag on your machine is the one that was put on at the factory...

My point is that most likely it is, BUT there is no way to trace the chain of ownership or repairs during the past 100+ years and "prove" that assumption. Even if you inherited it from a family member, you don't have any way to prove that Uncle Harry didn't mess with the tag or replace other parts in 1921 or 1934, so all we have to go on is what is presently in front of us and nothing more.

Just for kicks and to mess up future collectors, we should take off all serial number tags and shuffle them, then replace them in random order...
(just kidding, in case you are a super serious person) :roll: :lol:
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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