The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:13 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:55 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
My experience with the VE 10-50 X has led me to believe there are three main styles, the Early, the Mid, and the Late. I’ve included the serial numbers of my machines with each category. If you want to reply with your serial number and style type, that would be great. Note that I’ve included photos showing the two types of changers below (both have type 3 motors). The changer below with the extra pads/holes is a Late style 10-50 changer and is also the same changer type used on the VE 9-55 Electrola to facilitate the attachments of electrical switches. This particular changer has a switch set up in a unique location used in my coin-op machine.

EARLY (#508, #1009, 605):
- Light fixture at record level with the detector on changer front panel.
- Remove horn back panel before changer back panel.
- No wooden record magazine loader tool or shelf.
- No accessory drawer.
- No wooden divider between 10 inch and 12 inch album boxes.
- No metal trim around record shoot opening.
- No metal dish below turntable.
- Large head screws to hold down changer/motor board.
- Record magazine stand uses pin to connect to base.
- Wire harness uses two loose wires to connect to motor.
- First style metal changer board with no extra pads/holes.
- The album boxes have a wrinkle-look fabric.
- The reject button arm does not use an eye hook design.
- The record drawer is 19.5” high.
- The two electrodes on the underside of the switch differ in length.
- Wooden plug in horizontal board between the upper and lower back panels.
- Base molding under/behind the horn is cut out for amplifier access for VE 10-51.
- There are two unused holes on the deck behind the tone arm.
- Record drawer uses a tan colored felt not matching the other orange colored felt.
- Record lifting ring uses a pin that attaches the gold h/w that connects with the lift pad.
- Record magazine stand uses pin to connect its two long parts together.
- Record lifting ring casting has two vertical supports partially around its diameter.
- Record lifting ring uses a gold set screw to secure it to the attaching rod.
- Angle of 2 shafts in record size selector gear assembly is 125 degrees.
- Record Loader has a loop tip.
- No trim on back side of record playing area deck.

MID (#3428, #3914):
- Light fixture at record level with the detector on changer front panel.
- Remove horn back panel before changer back panel.
- Has wooden record magazine loader tool and shelf.
- Has accessory drawer.
- No wooden divider between 10 inch and 12 inch album boxes.
- No metal trim around record shoot opening.
- No metal dish below turntable.
- Large head screws to hold down changer/motor board.
- Record magazine stand uses pin to connect to base.
- Wire harness uses two loose wires to connect to motor.
- First style metal changer board with no extra pads/holes.
- The album boxes have a wrinkle-look fabric.
- The reject button arm uses an eye hook design.
- The record drawer is 15.5” high.
- The two electrodes on the underside of the switch differ in length.
- Wooden plug in horizontal board between the upper and lower back panels.
- Base molding under/behind the horn is cut out for amplifier access for VE 10-51.
- There are no holes on the deck behind the tone arm.
- Record drawer uses the same colored felt matching the other orange colored felt.
- Record lifting ring uses a pin that attaches the gold h/w that connects with the lift pad.
- Record magazine stand uses pin to connect its two long parts together.
- Record lifting ring casting has two vertical supports partially around its diameter.
- Record lifting ring uses a gold set screw to secure it to the attaching rod.
- Angle of 2 shafts in record size selector gear assembly is 125 degrees.
- Record Loader has either a loop tip or spear tip, not sure which at this point.
- No trim on back side of record playing area deck.

LATE (#5702, #8425, #8583)
- Light fixture above the turn table with the detector at the upper left corner of the left door.
- Remove changer back panel before horn back panel.
- Has wooden record magazine loader tool and shelf.
- Has accessory drawer.
- Has wooden divider between 10 inch and 12 inch album boxes.
- Has metal trim around record shoot opening.
- Has metal dish below turntable.
- Screws with rings to hold down changer/motor board.
- Record magazine stand uses a bolt to connect to base.
- Wire harness uses A plug/receptacle to connect to motor.
- Second style metal changer board with extra pads/holes.
- The album boxes have a fabric that you can see the vertical and horizontal threads.
- The reject button arm uses an eye hook design.
- The record drawer is 15.5” high.
- The two electrodes on the underside of the switch are the same in length.
- No wooden plug in horizontal board between the upper and lower back panels.
- Base molding under/behind the horn is not cut out for amplifier access for VE 10-51.
- There are no holes on the deck behind the tone arm.
- Record drawer uses the same colored felt matching the other orange colored felt.
- Record lifting ring uses a bolt/nut that attaches the gold h/w that connects with the lift pad.
- Record magazine stand uses bolt/nut to connect its two long parts together.
- Record lifting ring casting has two vertical supports completely around its diameter.
- Record lifting ring uses a non-gold set screw to secure it to the attaching rod.
- Angle of 2 shafts in record size selector gear assembly is 125 degrees.
- Record Loader has a spear tip.
- Trim added on back side of record playing area deck.


Attachments:
4ADD78A2-1942-4FAD-989F-BDF9F17AE4DD.jpeg
4ADD78A2-1942-4FAD-989F-BDF9F17AE4DD.jpeg [ 3.31 MiB | Viewed 785 times ]
DD08EF13-B0A0-49C9-A147-44550810573F.jpeg
DD08EF13-B0A0-49C9-A147-44550810573F.jpeg [ 3.9 MiB | Viewed 785 times ]
F583DFAA-B81F-4744-A2CE-A20FBDEB18B9.jpeg
F583DFAA-B81F-4744-A2CE-A20FBDEB18B9.jpeg [ 3.69 MiB | Viewed 785 times ]


Last edited by Victrola-Monkey on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:41 am, edited 10 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:54 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1037
Mine, #7834, fits all parameters (of the ones I can observe without disassembly or getting behind it) of your third grouping.

I think there is also variation in the number and sizings of record boxes - how many 12" and how many 10" - because I once had a set (with a different spine design), and it wouldn't fit my machine because, although I can’t remember the details, I think there were different numbers of 10 inch and 12 inch across the total. Mine has 3-12" (labelled A, B, C) and 5-10" (labelled D, E, F, G, H).


Last edited by PeterF on Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:28 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:38 pm
Posts: 1067
Location: Plover, WI
Wayne,
Here are some pictures of mine. Serial number C515. I hope you can determine the variation of my mechanism to figure out what parts I need from you when you get them cast.
Ken


Attachments:
DSCN0477.JPG
DSCN0477.JPG [ 2.66 MiB | Viewed 761 times ]
DSCN0480.JPG
DSCN0480.JPG [ 2.71 MiB | Viewed 761 times ]
DSCN1140.JPG
DSCN1140.JPG [ 244.97 KiB | Viewed 761 times ]
DSCN1038.JPG
DSCN1038.JPG [ 432.16 KiB | Viewed 761 times ]
DSCN1036.JPG
DSCN1036.JPG [ 453.76 KiB | Viewed 761 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
Peter,

Thanks for your input and yes there is a difference in the Early/Mid album boxes and the Late album boxes due to that wooden divider in the Late style 10-50s. The Late albums must be narrower to fit in with that divider. Also, the Late albums as seen in Phono-Phan's picture, has a fabric where you can see the vertical and horizontal threads in the fabric, while the Early/Mid album's fabric has a wrinkle look to it. The number and lettering of album boxes are the same however. Interesting that the VE 9-55 only has two 12" album boxes versus the three the 10-50 has, and that's due to a spacer board being added to the left of the record drawer. Also interesting is that the VE 9-55 uses Roman numbers instead of letters.

Ken,

Thanks for your input and I can tell that you also have a Late style of the 10-50 model. The clues from your photos are the screw holes around the record shoot opening for the metal trim that had to be removed before removing the changer/motor board. Also, the metal changer plate has those additional pads/holes that the Early/Mid styles did not have. The pot-metal replacement parts I am having made will fit all three styles of the VE 10-50, including the Canadian version. At this point I see no reason why my parts won't be excellent replacements for the VE 9-55 and VE 10-70 as well. I will be definitely replacing my 9-55s and 10-70s to verify.

-Wayne


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:53 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
I updated the original posting on this topic with new information regarding the second style changer board and two additional differences of the 3 styles of the this model.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:27 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
I have added/edited again additional differences to the original posting on this subject. If you are aware of any others, I’d like to add it to the list.

I also thought this would be a good place show a picture showing the undersides of two type 1 changers, one with the universal motor and the other with the induction motor. Also pictured is the page from the RCA Victor Data Book detailing the electrical properties of these motors. The universal motor is suppose to operate on 32 volts and using the 205 ohm post on the wire wound ceramic resistor. Even though the resistor measures out to be 205 ohms, I’m getting a voltage twice that and will need to figure out why. Any ideas?


Attachments:
35D7AA8C-4CE2-432E-AD5F-4EE6DF8A7E50.jpeg
35D7AA8C-4CE2-432E-AD5F-4EE6DF8A7E50.jpeg [ 3.7 MiB | Viewed 466 times ]
39595E10-D49E-46DA-8716-1D10830E9A5E.jpeg
39595E10-D49E-46DA-8716-1D10830E9A5E.jpeg [ 915.43 KiB | Viewed 466 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:27 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
I updated the original posting on this topic with four new additional differences of the 3 styles of the this model.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:35 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
I updated the original posting on this topic with two new additional differences found of the 3 styles of the the 10-50, including the discovery that the Early & Mid styles use a different shaft-angled record size gear assembly than the Late style. Note that I have yet to investigate the 3 of each 9-55 and 10-70 changer machines I have, but at this point it is assumed that those changers are of the Late style due to the extra pads/holes required on the 9-55 and 10-70 and that are only found on the Late style 10-50 changer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comparing the three different styles of the VE 10-50 X
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:35 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 332
Location: Florida
Again, I updated the original posting on this topic with two new additional differences found of the 3 styles of the the 10-50.

I'm hoping not to find any more differences.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bigshot, Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Pathe Logical and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.