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 Post subject: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:07 am 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 578
Location: South Carolina
In the process of repairing my BK Graphophone I accidentally polished a bunch of paint off the motorboard (not cool), installed a new Cline Decal without ruining the original antique finish (Way Cool), and got the reproducer fixed.

Now it plays a waltz or a hymn with great fidelity and tenderness but on occasion I do love some rag-time and some marches. Then it blasts.

It sounds awesome until it hits certain notes, then all the sound blends together into a mechanical groan or a squawk.

Now I am quite certain no one has slipped it any bad chili lately but these sounds are hardly decent. We are using a 14" brass horn on it and for a control I have my Edison Model A Standard with a Stephen Heatherly rebuilt Model C, and a 14" black and brass. It doesn't sound perfect, but most of that is, as I found out, noise from its 1904 drivetrain starting up.

And the Edison is whooping that Columbia something awful in the sound quality department. Not surprising considering how an Edison usually sounds...but still.

Any ideas?

My plan for the eventual setup is to install a H&S crane and a short morning glory horn, like a 18" or a 24".


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:12 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 129
Have you rebuilt the Columbia reproducer? Old dried up gaskets will prevent the diaphragm from vibrating freely which will result in blasting. Also, using gaskets that are too hard or screwing the clamp ring in too tight will have the same effect. I'm glad the edison c reproducer is working well for you.

Stephen


Last edited by Stephen_Heatherly on Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 578
Location: South Carolina
I've rebuilt it and replaced the Columbia stepped mica and rotten gaskets with Edison copper diaphragm from Sitko and fresh Edison Model C gaskets.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 129
VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
I've rebuilt it and replaced the Columbia stepped mica and rotten gaskets with Edison copper diaphragm from Sitko and fresh Edison Model C gaskets.


Well, there goes that idea. :( Do you think the blasting may being caused by the stylus bar linkage vibrating in the diaphragm/ stylus bar eyelets? I've had that issue with edison reproducers. A thicker gauge wire helped quiet it down.

Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 578
Location: South Carolina
Thanks for the idea, Stephen! I reused the original linkage from 1906 and it's pretty thin compared to the holes it's got to go in. There is some nickel silver wire around here and it might get used.

I wish there was an accessory diaphragm for these small reproducers as well using a cotton link like in the Diamond A, B, and C reproducers. I have a potmetal Diamond C that sounds really nice with a Truetone diaphragm from Larry H, and it makes a real difference in the sound.

My franken-N Reproducer installed on the Model E Standard (which I did get playing; it's actually done DJ service at a citywide garden party) uses a cheap Bostitch style stapler. The issue isn't the sound, it's the needle bouncing on warped cylinders and the jingling from the old motor but I can tune it up and it'll be perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 129
I wonder if substituting the wire for heavy upholstery thread would eliminate even more of the buzz. I've been wanting to do a little experiment and find out, but I haven't gotten around to it. Where did you get the true tone diaphragm? I've been wanting to try one out. I have a very nice diamond b reproducer rebuilt with a new diaphragm from Ron Sitko and silicone rubber gaskets from ebay that I use on my edison standard model f to play blue amberols and indestructibles. With the cygnet horn it sounds truly impressive and really puts my amberolas to shame. Sometimes function follows form, unfortunately. Getting back on topic, I've never personally owned a Columbia machine with a lyric reproducer, but having spoken to more experienced collectors it appears Columbia machines fall short when it comes to pretty much everything except for aesthetics. So, you may have to live with the sound quality your machine has, but careful experimentation can't hurt.

Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 578
Location: South Carolina
Stephen--

I got my Truetone from eBay, larryh (Volvoic) makes and sells them. They fit the Diamond series reproducers.

Regarding sound quality of the 2m Columbia--MicaMonster says they can outperform an Edison if tuned.

Might find that someone else will be tuning it. I bought the Columbia to get it out of danger of becoming parts, and also to get hold of something for 2m celluloid records that would sound really cool. Well, now I'm going to take delivery of a Fireside Model A but it's nice to have the Columbias and the Standard A's around--they're kind of perky looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:54 am 
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Victor III
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I'm Getting Ready for my Mother In Law
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:52 pm
Posts: 751
Location: the Adirondacks
VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
I've rebuilt it and replaced the Columbia stepped mica and rotten gaskets with Edison copper diaphragm from Sitko and fresh Edison Model C gaskets.


1. Those copper diaphragms are too soft of an alloy

2. The Lyric is designed to be used with 2-step mica diaphragm. I have a super nice 3-step diaphragm here..... from an Edison, but should work better. The copper doesn’t have the compliance of mica. That’s where your blasting is coming from.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasting in Columbia Lyric 2m--how to fix?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:10 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 129
You learn something new every day. I never thought of the diaphragm being a possible cause for this issue. I have an early winged edison c reproducer with an original stepped mica diaphragm and think it sounds very nice as it is. I saw no reason to "up date" to a copper diaphragm. I'm glad I didn't now. Thanks Wyatt for sharing your knowledge.

Stephen


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