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 Post subject: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:26 am 
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Victor II
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Have to admitt I don't know much about Edison Diamond Discs. I know the
very late 52,000 titles are interesting to listen too and also pretty rare. But what about the earliest titles???


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:02 am 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
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I find any instrumental pieces interesting..band music, orchestral, and small ensembles. Much less so with the Edison vocalists of their day. The very early discs had supremely quiet surfaces in many cases too.
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:49 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2413
Skihawx wrote:
Have to admitt I don't know much about Edison Diamond Discs. I know the
very late 52,000 titles are interesting to listen too and also pretty rare. But what about the earliest titles???


The earliest titles are farily rare (all but 3 of the initial 50000 series were discontinued by July 1913) and quite hard to find in playable condition. When you find them however, they are a joy, as they are generally well recorded and have very quiet surfaces. In the last 6 months I have been able to acquire 5 of these and may be getting a 6th one soon. I posted earlier requesting anyone who had any of these early discs to contact me. I got only one response, and no discs.

There is some info about these early discs in the Collector's Guide that came out this year. I am putting some information together to try to supplement this and provide detailed examples.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 8:20 pm
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Location: Mid - Michigan
52089: that's great that you have been able to find that many of the early production discs. I've only seen a couple for sale over the years and those weren't in playable condition. The earliest were celluloid surfaces laminated onto the powder blanks IIRC. Also, weren't some of the early sides recoupled and issued under different catalog numbers?

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2413
phonojim wrote:
52089: that's great that you have been able to find that many of the early production discs. I've only seen a couple for sale over the years and those weren't in playable condition. The earliest were celluloid surfaces laminated onto the powder blanks IIRC. Also, weren't some of the early sides recoupled and issued under different catalog numbers?

Jim


Well of the 5 I have in my hands, I think only 1 or 2 are fully playable, but even so they are useful for research purposes. None of them was noted as "early" by the seller. In fact the last one I got was in a $2 pile at the Wayne show 2 weeks ago!

Yes, many of the early issues were reissued in various ways on later discs.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Victor O
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Location: Twin Cities
I too am a fan of the early recordings. A few years ago, when I started collecting, I ran across a box of black label records at a garage sale. I know that the war time recordings were not great but these looked different so I took a chance and got a box of 25 for $1 each. It had a lot of good quality war time records and about 10 or so of these early records, several of which had the original sleeves and are in great condition.

I'm listening to 50059 right now and almost 100 years later, it still sounds great. I have to believe that in 1914 when this record was recorded, a person who was a fan of symphony and orchestra music would have thought the Edison Diamond Disc was truly a modern marvel. The quality and detail of the string and wood instruments that comes through is really great and not something I have heard in any of the later paper labels records until the electrically recorded ones.

Attached is a picture of one of the records for those that may not have seen one yet. This style of embossed label has a frosted etched look and is quite different from the later etched labels. Also, the early style records lack the three small indentations found in the later records that were made with a different process. I think the dots were from a tool used to hold the record. Anyway, these are really great sounding record.
Scott


Attachments:
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IMG_1410.JPG
IMG_1410.JPG [ 2.25 MiB | Viewed 994 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
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I posted in another thread on this already but anyway, I got an A250 with about 140 diamond discs included, mostly very early, frosty labels in the 80xxx, 82xxx, 83xxx series. Probably at least 80% of them had delamination cracks on at least one side, just at the edge, running parallel to the first groove and similarly in the center of the record. :( Otherwise most were in near perfect condition.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
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In addition to the quieter surfaces, the truly early discs, i.e., those pressed before July 1913, generally differ in appearance from those made later. Here for example is one side of 50002. You'll notice 2 obvious differences right away. First, the ring around the center hole is a bit larger than "normal", measuring ⅞" instead of ⅝". Second, the matrix number (1077) is part of the engraved label and appears at the 6 o'clock position.
Attachment:
File comment: DD 50002, preliminary match disc with large center ring and matrix number in label
IM001118.JPG
IM001118.JPG [ 395.22 KiB | Viewed 900 times ]


You need to know that these characteristics do not apply to every preliminary disc, nor to every side either! Here is the other side of the same disc with a label that is "standard". (Sorry for the blurry photo)
Attachment:
File comment: DD 50002, preliminary match, but with "standard" label. These 2 pictures are of the same record
IM001120.JPG
IM001120.JPG [ 405.33 KiB | Viewed 900 times ]


There are other differences and I will again refer you to the Collector's Guide for more details.

Within the 50000 series, all numbers from 50001-50047 are automatically "preliminary" copies, except 50001, 50043, and 50045 which stayed in the catalog into the paper label years. All of these pre-July 1913 pressings are scarce as they had very limited distribution. It's always worth checking the "matte" label discs for characteristics like the above.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2413
I just created a rough video of a preliminary match copy of 50001, Below the Mason Dixon Line, sung by Arthur Collins. Enjoy.

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)



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 Post subject: Re: Diamond discs below 50,050?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Location: Syracuse N.Y.
I was searching the internet for more information regarding pre-50050 catalog diamond discs. I came across the "On the Road to Mandalay" posted on the forum and would like to share the copy I have. The one depicted above has the same matrix number as mine 1250 with catalog "50012". But on mine the matrix number is reversed and the suffix is "35". Note also there is no blank space to fill in the matrix number.

It is also interesting to note that this version of On the Road to Mandalay is not the later well known version with music by Oley Speaks.The music is written and published in 1903 by Columbia University Professor J. Dyneley Prince (1868-1945) who was an American Linguist, Diplomat and Politician. Curious because today the song is considered...ummm... somewhat politically incorrect.

On the reverse side is depicted "In the Valley Where the Bluebirds Sing" matrix 1150-21.

Can anyone recommend a definitive source of information on the earliest pre-July 1913 Diamond Discs?


Attachments:
Edison 50012a.jpg
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Edison 50012b.jpg
Edison 50012b.jpg [ 718.74 KiB | Viewed 376 times ]
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