HMV no.4 reproducer vs Victor No.2 (blare, blast, buzz, etc)

[ImperialGuardsman]

When I first rebuilt my No.2 I thought that it handled loud and electricaly recorded records pretty well. I eventually picked up a an HMV no.4 for a good price and rebuilt it. To me, it seems that it buzzes and blasts in the same spots that the no.2 will on a given record, though it is somewhat reduced. I figured that it would be much different. What are your experiences in this regard?

I rebuilt both using the mica and gasket kits that are on eBay from Walt Sommers. Same for the flanges.


On a side note, I just got a Juwel Electra reproducer today and look forward to rebuilding it.

Thanks,
Nicholas

[Valecnik]

My experience is quite the opposite, the no. 4 being a big improvement.

[Henry]

I have no experience with the no. 2 or 4, but with my Exhibition there is no buzz or blast after rebuilding and "fine tuning" of the needle bar adjustment springs. Assuming a responsive, intact mica diaphragm, the next essentials are pliable front gaskets and back flange. The needle bar must be adjusted "by the book" (the Victor original tune-up instructions) and the diaphragm end properly sealed with beeswax. The seal between rear of sound box and back flange must be air-tight (I use a large felt gasket; others use Vaseline). Test for air-tight response by observing (use mirror) diaphragm "pumping" action with application of suction (by mouth) to rear opening. Install fresh needle and you're good to go.

[phonojim]

A rebuilt No.4 should handle anything that you can throw at it if the pivots are properly adjusted. If they are too loose you will experience the conditions you mentioned, too tight and you will have poor sound quality and excessive record wear as well. You have to find that "sweet spot" in the adjustment that is just right. I actually final tuned a Columbia VivaTonal while playing a record with it. It was the only way I could hit the right adjustment. That said, if it is happening in the same places on a given record with both reproducers, it could be the record itself. Many records will blare and buzz in the same places no matter what method of reproduction you use, even if it's modern electrical, although the effects will be different depending on the method of reproduction you are using.

Jim

[ImperialGuardsman]

Hmmm, I guess that it could just be the records. The particulare example that I was thinking of were my Caruso records. Moments where he really let his voice loose tend to cause some buzz. I figured that it was the reproducers being unable to keep up with him (which is why the no.4 buzzing threw me off, as it was mae for loud electrical recordings). I'll fiddle with the pivot locations on it when I get a chance (just to see if it does anything).

Either way, my no.2 does seem to preform like a champ. Not sure if mine is tuned just right or if the no.2 was well designed in general.

[ImperialGuardsman]

Oh, and does anyone find the smaller opening on the HMV reproducers to have an effect on the sound? One quiet recordings, it does seem quieter than my no.2.

[gregbogantz]

Assuming that you don't have loose parts that are rattling in the reproducer, be aware that when you hear buzzing and "blasting" from an acoustic reproducer while playing loud recorded passages, what's actually happening is that the needle is losing intimate contact with the groove wall and is rattling, banging, and slamming around inside the groove. This quickly leads to gouging of the groove walls which results in permanent damage to the record. This can happen with only one play. So the record will forever buzz and blast during those same loud passages. This behavior should be avoided at all cost if you value your records. Playing later electrical (especially postwar) recordings with early acoustic reproducers that have typically low compliance is a really good way to ruin the records. Similarly, using an early magnetic pickup that has not been properly rebuilt with proper compliance in the needle bar bushings will do the same kind of damage.

[Henry]

Hmmm, I guess that it could just be the records. The particulare example that I was thinking of were my Caruso records. Moments where he really let his voice loose tend to cause some buzz. I figured that it was the reproducers being unable to keep up with him (which is why the no.4 buzzing threw me off, as it was mae for loud electrical recordings). I'll fiddle with the pivot locations on it when I get a chance (just to see if it does anything).

Either way, my no.2 does seem to preform like a champ. Not sure if mine is tuned just right or if the no.2 was well designed in general.

I have the ubiquitous "Celeste Aida" recording with Caruso, and when he gets to that high note and holds it, it's like he was in the room right in front of me, so powerful is the effect! I honestly feel like I am hearing him as a living presence. (No buzzing, blasting, or rattling with my rebuilt Exhibition.) That is truly the "million-dollar note" that sold millions of Caruso recordings for VTMCo.

[ImperialGuardsman]

Interesting... Well, a majority of my records came worn in some form or another, so that could be the cause of some of it. Perhaps I'll have a professional adjust my reproducers when I send some odd ones in to be rebuilt.

I do love Caruso's voice when he hits the high notes, too bad he passed away before electrical recording.

Thanks for all the replies.