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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Victor III
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I have an original Exhibition Serial #1639, which I found minus machine, but which can be dated by the volume control and metal reproducer cover on it which state "PAT.DEC 27,04", (round hole, round head screws, knurled nuts, normal spaced flange screw holes).


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:24 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
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Zwebie wrote:
I have an original Exhibition Serial #1639, which I found minus machine, but which can be dated by the volume control and metal reproducer cover on it which state "PAT.DEC 27,04", (round hole, round head screws, knurled nuts, normal spaced flange screw holes).

This could mean that only the first 1500 (or so) Exhibition reproducers had narrow spaced mounting screw holes suitable for the rigid-arm. Perhaps other owners could step in.

In your case, an early soundbox was later equipped with volume control and metal cover.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
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Location: Michigan
Starkton wrote:
Zwebie wrote:
I have an original Exhibition Serial #1639, which I found minus machine, but which can be dated by the volume control and metal reproducer cover on it which state "PAT.DEC 27,04", (round hole, round head screws, knurled nuts, normal spaced flange screw holes).

This could mean that only the first 1500 (or so) Exhibition reproducers had narrow spaced mounting screw holes suitable for the rigid-arm. Perhaps other owners could step in.

In your case, an early soundbox was later equipped with volume control and metal cover.


I also have a Rigid Arm E with an original Exhibition reproducer on it, serial number 2891. Rigid Arm Exhibitions are seldom seen but I've seen a couple others, always on Rigid Arm E's. Maybe the Rigid Arm Exhibitions had their own serial number sequence. And the regular Exhibitions with their own number sequence and even the long throat Exhibitions with their own sequence. Starting to sound like another research project.

Best Regards, Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 999
Phonolair wrote:
Maybe the Rigid Arm Exhibitions had their own serial number sequence. And the regular Exhibitions with their own number sequence and even the long throat Exhibitions with their own sequence. Starting to sound like another research project.

This is entirely possible!

Apart from historical reasons (e.g. repair, loss), the thoughtless habit to exchange "identical" soundboxes makes research difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Victor III
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We are only the caretakers for future generations.
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:55 pm
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Location: Oklahoma
Stockton, I would agree that the improvements were probably added later,
Quote:
Perhaps other owners could step in. In your case, an early soundbox was later equipped with volume control and metal cover.



Quote:
Maybe the Rigid Arm Exhibitions had their own serial number sequence. And the regular Exhibitions with their own number sequence and even the long throat Exhibitions with their own sequence.


Larry, This does make a lot of sense, and would explain why Bills longthroat,
Quote:
Victor E long throat, ca. 1902: #32589
has such a high number.

Bob S.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:43 pm
Posts: 1176
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I have three. One is gold with an oddly low serial number, given that it came off a tone arm with an post to trip the semi-automatic stop: 42230 B. The other two are nickel; 236908 A and 243107, from a Victor III. #8792. I doubt if it is original to the machine ,although it's been on it for ages. I have had the machine since 1977. All have triangular chucks.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:42 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:03 pm
Posts: 665
Location: The Quiet Corner, Connecticut, USA
On my 1911 VV-XVI ("Eldora" :lol:), serial number 49977, soundbox serial number 73742B. This SN is considerably higher than that of the soundbox (SN 35696B) on Fran's machine built in 1912, so is it safe to presume that one or the other was switched at some point? Or is it possible that there were so many soundboxes manufactured in advance of the construction of machines that the soundbox's SN doesn't neatly correlate to the SN of the machine? My machine came from the grandson of the original purchaser, so it had been in the same family for slightly over a hundred years, which doesn't prove that the soundbox is original to the machine, but would suggest it.

On my XVIII ("D'Zweet" :roll:), serial number 1098 (1915), soundbox number 260016. I bought this from a man who seemed to be well into his 80s, who told me that his parents had received the phonograph as a wedding gift in 1923. This is interesting because production of the XVIII was over by 1916, though Paul Edie says that enough of them had been built that they were available into the early 'twenties. The seller's parents had been immigrants from Ireland, and employed as domestic help. I wondered whether they may have been given a slightly-used but still luxurious phonograph by wealthy employers, but he knew nothing about the identity of the donor. Given how long the machine had been in his family, it again suggests a probability that the soundbox is original to the machine, though if his parents did receive it second-hand, anything is possible. (Anything's possible anyway, I suppose, with these century-old machines.)

A couple of questions: by what production year was the switch from the round chuck to the triangular chuck complete? And does anyone have an idea of how common it would have been for owners to replace a round-chuck soundbox with a new one if they wanted to use bamboo needles? Also, is the "B" suffix tied specifically to the introduction of the triangular chuck? And what's the "N" suffix mean?
"Gosh darn a Billiken anyhow."- Uncle Josh Weathersby


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:26 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Cody K wrote:
Or is it possible that there were so many soundboxes manufactured in advance of the construction of machines that the soundbox's SN doesn't neatly correlate to the SN of the machine?


Absolutely. Period photos taken inside the Victor factory show trays of sound boxes being assembled by a long line of women seated at tables. Completed sound boxes would have been packed in boxes, put into inventory, and paired with a machine in the packing department. Maintaining a strict serial sequence would have virtually impossible, as well as meaningless. The best we can do at this point is to establish a general range of sound box numbers that would have been shipped with the various versions of Victor/Victrola models.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:13 am 
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Victor II
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Greg
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Central Maryland
I own 3 machines with Exhibitions, and two have serials.

Victrola X (Serial no. 89189, 1914) Exhibition no. 694198A

Victrola IX (Serial no. 332901, 1917) Exhibition no. 1004285N

As far as I can tell, these are original. The IX came from my grandmother, where it spent most of it's life after she acquired it in the 60s, and the X was left outside, so why would someone take the time to replace the reproducer? Then again, they also did replace the governor springs with a tape measure. I'm just going to say it's original.

Side note, why would only some Exhibitions have serials and some don't?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhibition Reproducer Serial Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:27 pm
Posts: 40
Location: mid michigan
I have many machines most I can't verify if the reproducer is original to that machine,
but this is undeniable I have an original crate for a victrola 16 with the tag that gives both the machine and the reproducer numbers according to data the machine was produced late 1917 unfortunately I don't own the machine that goes with the crate.


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