Is Union JUST a sale? Please read!

[Jerry B.]

I was reading on another thread about a craigslist type ad for a $550 VV-XVI. The author wondered if he should buy or wait to see if there was a similar machine for sale at Union. Someone responded, in my opinion correctly, that there would be Victrolas at Union but they tended to be more unusual ones with special finishes and more exotic woods, etc.
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For me and many others, Union is a long trip and it is not worth taking a really big object that will not sell for much. About a year ago I offered an oak XVI in the Trader section. (Please search for "Nicest oak Victrola XVI") I sold that machine and another beautiful "L" door to a good friend and delivered them at Union. I drove them 2500 miles to Union and he drove them another 1000 plus miles into Canada. Would I have taken those beautiful machine to Union? The answer is no! There is too much risk that a big machine in a small expensive sales booth will not sell. If it didn't sell on Friday or Saturday, you'd have to price it like a fire sale on Sunday and hope that it went away. The space for the return trip is always at a premium. Space going to Union is always easier and it was easy for me to deliver two big Victrolas that were pre-sold.
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If you'd like to find a big machine, let's read about it on the Forum. I haul for myself and about six other northwest collectors. If you are looking for a particular big machine let's hear about it. I'll contact others to see what they have and put you in touch with them. What do I get out of it? I want the people that share in my fuel expense to feel like they get good value for their dollar and I want them happy.
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Some of the pre-sold items that I delivered last year were a large hand painted radio, three Victrola XVIs, a table VV-X, a table VV-XI, a table Grafonola, an Edison Standard, and a very early VV-XIV. There is already a corner spot in my garage filled with items going to Union. If you are going to Union, I suggest you really take advantage of the possibilities and opportunity.
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Jerry Blais

[gramophone78]

Jerry, I think most if not all of us know you can and will deliver stuff to Union for gas money. You may want to post an ad in "Yankee Trader" regarding this however so it's not lost with incoming threads. Union is still a ways off.. . Many may take you up on that service.
Still, unless the machine is of a rare finish or something. Why would anyone go to Union to buy a Victrola. Even if the buyer has transport to move a machine like this back home.....why bother??. You can check places like Craigslist and see many for sale at any given time. Probably very close to where you live. Just my opinion... .

[Mr Grumpy]

Thanks Jerry, I very much appreciate the offer and may take you up on it.
Buying it from a trusted forum member over a local ad would definitely appeal to me for several reasons.
1. As was pointed out in my other topic, there were problems with the machine that I wouldn't have spotted (wrong reproducer, no casters). This is the first XVI I've seen in the Toronto area in 6 months of searching.
2. As was pointed out in the other topic, The asking price for the machine is quite high considering it's defects.

I only have room for one large machine so a Walnut XVI or a XVII would be my preference
(my wife will probably decide for me).

Does anyone know what Canada customs thinks about importing an old Victrola in the trunk of an SUV?
Do you pay duty based on the sale price on the receipt? It's not something I think I could sneak in.

[OrthoSean]

I only have room for one large machine so a Walnut XVI or a XVII would be my preference
(my wife will probably decide for me).

Go for an XVII or 130 (same model, basically). If you only want one large Victor floor model, this model has a little more style than a XVI (even so, I have a soft spot for the XVI). You're more likely to see one of those there although I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen one there! You may want to post a wanted ad in the YT section and see if anyone can help get you a nice machine to the show. I'd offer to sell you one of my six XVIs, but they're all different variations!

Good luck!
Sean

[flashpanblue]

Hi Mr Grumpy,
Bringing machines back across the border is not a problem. What you pay in Duty/tax depends on the declared value. If the item is over 100 years old then there is no duty only provincial tax. If you stay down over 24 hours you can bring back $200 worth of goods without any tax. If you stay down for more then two days your limit increases to $800. That limit is per person so if you have your wife with you that means that you can now bring back goods worth $1600 with no tax. I strongly suggest going to the Union show early and paying the early buyers entrance fee, it is really worth it. A lot of good stuff comes out and changes hands on the set up day and the prices are usually a little lower than they end up being when the door finally opens to the general public. You can also ask the seller of what ever you buy to write you out a receipt for less than you actually paid for it. Most sellers understand and have no problem with this.
On a side note on set up day I was looking for a real nice Edison Triumph model A. as I recall I had a choice of six that showed up on the Friday. By Saturday morning most had been sold. Had I not showed up and paid the early entrance fee I would not have found the best of the bunch!
Pete

[Jerry B.]

#1 rule: Always buy the best you can afford.
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If you're going to Union, ask people what they could bring. Don't just wait to see what shows up. Jerry

[whoopinola]

As a retired Canada Customs Inspector , I can speak with experience..You will pay HST on the declared value minus what 'tourist exemptions" that you might qualify for...Let me tell you a story of an incident that happened many years ago..I was working at the Ambassador Bridge Windsor Ont...I was in the secondary exam area , it was a sunday late afternoon...A van pulled under the exam area with a referal slip that said "$150 declared Please Examin"...The importer was an asian fellow..who opened the side door of his van to reveal a van full of Edison, and Victor outside horn machines...parts , motors etc....He starts off with "It's all old stuff..not worth anything"
...I replied.."Just getting back from Union"...."That Edison Standard there , 2 minute or 4"..."I wanted to go there this year but couldn't get the time off"...."Now sir, I'm going to take a strole around your van , and when I get back here you will tell me EXACTLY what you have paid!!!...He replied"$7500.....so I walked him into the office and made him pay on $5,000, and gave him proper shite all the way......He could have lost it all , and the van as well...Moral , don't fib

[Mr Grumpy]

Just to reiterate my issue with finding a good machine locally.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z464378648

This is the first Credenza I have seen locally (after roughly 6 months of searching),
and it really isn't THAT local as it's about a 10 hour drive from Toronto.
Judging by the price tag of the VV-X, I can't even imagine the offers that the seller
would entertain for the Credenza.

[beaumonde]

I am lucky that I live in Chicago, so when I have bought at Union over the years, I can either carry it back with me (Vic VI, Columbia BII, Viva-tonal 160), or arrange a local delivery (VV-XVIII)...

[gramophone78]

Just to reiterate my issue with finding a good machine locally.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z464378648

This is the first Credenza I have seen locally (after roughly 6 months of searching),
and it really isn't THAT local as it's about a 10 hour drive from Toronto.
Judging by the price tag of the VV-X, I can't even imagine the offers that the seller
would entertain for the Credenza.

The best advice a collector could give a person wanting that one nice machine is... "patience". Most have us have learned that one the hard way... . six months looking is not very long. Some have waited years for that one machine to come along.
If you find a machine you like....you have to go with your gut and with what you can afford.
As explained in your thread on the 16....."worth" is a personal thing.