Why is the Diamond Disk machine under appreciated in the US?

[1926CredenzaOwner]

Okay... from what I've been able to gather from our UK posters in this thread, Diamond Disc machines were only imported to the UK, and none were produced there?

[edisonphonoworks]

I don't know about bad music, sure there are homely Diamond Discs. But there was Edison Jass, and there was good dance music, and it was well recorded and lively. Victor applied to city folk, ad Edison Country folk. I have a 1924 Edison catalog, and it seems to have a lot of selections... 494 pages!!! I like the arrangements on Edison, there is a lot of traps, and sound effects, and they sounds like real instruments. The arrangements on Columbia and Victor, sound like cheap toy instruments, and voices sound like shadows. Even with a glass diaphragm. An Edison (cylinder or disc) sounds like a real person or instrument, and a Victor, or other lateral recording sounds like a talking machine, it sounds horn like, and limited. What is wrong with Harry Raderiman, Red Nichols, The Golden Gate Orchestra, Picailly Players, Billy Murray, Cal Stewart ect.

[VintageTechnologies]

The Diamond Disk machine certainly isn't under appreciated at my house! I have seven or eight models scattered around the house and countless DD records, I quit counting at 500 DD's decades ago. I have diverse musical tastes and so have found plenty of pleasing records in different categories. I think "The Old Man" had less influence over the music as time went on, because there were plenty of "hot" records released. I quite often prefer the Edison version of a popular song, over Victor's -- the musicians and arrangements were that good.

That the records could play up to five minutes gave musicians opportunities to improvise and expand upon the same songs they recorded for 78 rpm labels. There was good talent too -- you usually can't go wrong buying anything by the Broadway Dance Orchestra or the Green Brothers.

I rarely buy or play black label records becasue they are indeed noisy, but the white labels can be quiet and they constantly improved over the years. I am very particular about the condition of the records I buy, which keeps the noise tolerable. The record fidelity is generally more consistent than other brands, but many examples are really outstanding. The motor is one of the best ever built, strong, well regulated and quiet. Oh, and I don't have to change needles every time I play a record!

[FloridaClay]

I'll have to say that I am rather happy that DD's can be had at reasonable prices, as that was good for my budget in acquiring a couple. I love my A250 and C150 and play them often. And while "the old man" definitely had Victorian tastes in music and kept a lot of good stuff from being recorded for Edison and there are the well-know surface noise problems with WWI era discs, some really good stuff did worm its way in, especially in the 20s. I especially like many of the electrically recorded DD's I have.

Clay

[Victrolacollector]

Edison Diamond Disc machines can be beautiful, and with a properly restored reproducer can sound great! However, I think there are quite a few drawbacks to these machines:

1. Replacement Stylus- Replacement stylus are not cheap, a good one can cost as
much or 2 to 3 times as much as a Victrola Reproducer (Exhibition, Victrola
No.2 ) Be prepared to shell out around $ 150.00.

2. Mechanics: The mechanics are quite sophisticated and there is a lot of
adjustment on these machines vs. Victor machines. (Horn Adjustments etc.)
There are additional complex parts on these that you do not find in Victor
machines (additional gearing etc.)

3. Musical Genre: The musical taste of a Edison DD is not as diverse as that
found on a 78 rpm lateral cut record. While Edison Discs were made around
1912 to 1929, that is about 17 years of music to draw from, compared to
lets 35 years worth for a Victor (1900-1935), playing anything newer than
1935 on a Victor will damage a record in my opinion. Realistically, there
are about 10-12 years of material to draw from for Edison, since records
from the 1925-1929 era start becoming harder to find as they are rarer.
Expect to pay $ 40.00 and up for many of the later issues with "hot titles",
versus a few bucks for a Victor 78.

4. Condition: Alot of those thick Edisons have been ruined with steel needles,
bad lamination cracks and chips. These can damage the diamond needle. It is
hard to find good store stock but be prepared to shell out the dough. Many
Edison DD discs can have bad surfaces which has surface noise "Woosh Woosh"

5. Expenses: The weight on Edison DD Records are more than a 78 rpm and can
take up more space. Mailing and Shipping a DD record can be expensive.

While I love Edison Diamond Discs, I have invested thousands of dollars in about 300 of them, I find the Victors give me plenty of pleasure, and will be selling off about 50 of the DD's in the upcoming months. They take up considerable room, and I will keep maybe 75-100 of them for my machine.

[Jerry B.]

I started this thread for a couple of reasons. My basement is to the point that if something comes in, something else goes out. When I look around for things to sell, I always pause for a moment at my Long-playing Console No. 2. You can almost feel the excitement of the original buyer as he anticipated the future enjoying the cutting edge long play technology. But it was such a flop and very few records were sold. My machine is nearly perfect and yet it is worth so little. It amazes me that such an unusual machine is under appreciated by todays collectors. Other flops and failures are prized by collectors. The Victrola XX is a good example of one of Victors failed attempts at a high end Victrola. Even with talking machine values down, I bet a XX is worth close to $10,000. The second reason for this thread is that I've been asked to help someone sell two Diamond Disk uprights. It's very difficult to explain that todays current value is about the same as the original sale price of their machines nearly one hundred years ago. Jerry Blais (proud owner of a boat anchor $500 Long-playing Console No. 2)

[epigramophone]

Okay... from what I've been able to gather from our UK posters in this thread, Diamond Disc machines were only imported to the UK, and none were produced there?

No Diamond Discs or machines were produced in the UK, as Edison's London factory had already closed prior to their introduction. Factors had to order direct from Edison's Overseas Department in the USA.

No Blue Amberols were produced in the UK either. They were all made in the USA irrespective of where they were recorded.

The reason for withdrawing the phonograph business from the UK was said to be because it could be handled more efficiently from the USA.

[1926CredenzaOwner]

The reason for withdrawing the phonograph business from the UK was said to be because it could be handled more efficiently from the USA.

Ah... classic Tom!

[phonogfp]

Jerry,

Had your posting been asking for "Why I Like Edison Disc Phonographs," I would have plenty to write. But as to why they're not more popular than they are (and therefore selling for more money), I think several of the previous posters have presented compelling reasons. But read between the lines. Edison Disc Phonographs and records aren't "low hanging fruit." They're not simple, nor are they lightweight, easy to store, nor are desirable titles easily found on the cheap. And most models are plentiful. That constellation of factors will discourage many. But for others, it's like waving meat in front of a hungry dog...

If your friend is selling an A-300, A/B-375, A-400, or an A-450, please contact me!

(And if anyone's looking for a cheap C-200, LU-37, S-19, C-19, or H-19, I can help! )

George P.

[ImperialGuardsman]

[quote="1926CredenzaOwner"]t Want to play your Victor discs on an Edison machine? Sure, no problem! Here's an adapter that barely works and wears out your records faster than a standard lateral machine![/i]
quote]


Is this point accurate for all adapters or just some? I have a kent adapter with an HMV no.4 reproducer and I imagined that the amount of wear wouled be about the same. I understand that there would be tracking error (as there always is) But I figured that the moving horn would help reduce that a bit.

Thanks,
Nicholas