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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:02 am 
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Victor III
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The reproducer. Heavier spring loaded weight, mica diaphragm. The sapphire isn't what I have encountered in the past, it has a ball tip. Replaced rubber gaskets, and added some of my paper gaskets to make the adjustments more subtle. Removed and re-seated sapphire with flake shellac (I am SO old-school)!

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-Antique Phonograph Reproducer Restorer-
http://www.EdisonDiamondDisc.com
Taming Orthophonics Daily!


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:53 am 
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Victor IV
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Very interesting. That reproducer is quite different from mine. My Manhattan has a normal Automatic weight, but it has a flat spring on the inside to add substantial pressure for more volume. It is not the same as this one, but I know it's original. I've found lots of differences among surviving Manhattans. It's been 10 years since I wrote an article about them, and more mysteries have come up since. It's time for me to do an update.


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Victor IV
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That modified reproducer reminds me of the Indestructible 2M reproducer with it's spring-loaded weight. It seems what you have would tear up wax records in a hurry! I have two Indestructible reproducers, and one of them has a ball sapphire instead of the early chisel-shaped sapphire. I wonder if this machine started with a conventional reproducer and then was later upgraded to exploit the durability and volume of the celluloid cylinders?


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File comment: Indestructible Model N reproducer
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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Victor III
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I'm Getting Ready for my Mother In Law
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Location: the Adirondacks
The reproducer DOES have physical similarities to the "N," but when you look at the front of the weight, it is not blunt cut with a limit loop pin.....it is round, with a notch cut out to accommodate the weight rest.

WORK CONTINUES!!!!!

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The cabinet has never really been cleaned, and has a very dark appearance. I use a product called NEW LIFE Furniture Masque, made by the RAMAX company. It is buffered with orange oil, and is VERY GENTLE. This means that it works slowly, and does not have the powerful solvent action of Kotton Klenser or "Gojo." I have found the other cleaners to be too powerful, and they dissolve shellac at an alarming rate.
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Signboard disassembled for cleaning.
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This machine had a "smoker's finish" on it. In other words, whoever had it must have been a VERY heavy smoker! Machines from smoker's homes are incredibly well preserved. Something about tar keeps the shellac from crazing and disintegrating. I was removing an incredible amount of geck from the cabinet, all in that brown molasses color that I only associate with tar. I usually do NOT condone nicotine addictions, but in this case it was good for the machine.
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The inside of the machine cleaned up nicely. It was preserved under a thick layer of grey dust and gum.
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The signboard sits on the top of the cabinet, aligned with two pins. Where the pins insert into the top of the cabinet, the wood shrunk, and it split the mounting area, right on a tongue&groove joint. The wood retained its split appearance, and because of humidity and drying....kept its shape. Using syringes I injected urethane glue deep into the split (I injected a few drops of water first, as humidity helps cure the glue), and some regular wood glue into the vertical open split just to give it further support. This will dry for 24 hours before I remove the clamps.

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My thanks to Rene Rondeau for sourcing these beautiful locks for me. The pennies are NOW secure!! :lol:
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Here is the hardware from Blacksmith Bolt. These are un-plated steel carriage bolts and washers. They are black oxide treated. I heated them with a torch to remove the black oxide coating, and now they look like original steel bolts. I can not recommend Blacksmith Bolt highly enough for restoration hardware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The assembled cabinet resting near the autoclave.
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And resting in my office while the glue dries.

Next: installing the signboard, cleaning the mechanism, and re-creating the horseshoe magnet slug catcher!
-Antique Phonograph Reproducer Restorer-
http://www.EdisonDiamondDisc.com
Taming Orthophonics Daily!


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:25 pm 
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VTLA
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That cleaned up very nicely. Thanks for sharing.
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Victor III
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While cleaning the cabinet and finishing up, the Post Office delivery dude showed up with my latest eBay purchase: a horse-shoe MAGNET! So, I decided to bring my leftover pizza with me to the workshop to start searching for a piece of old metal to replace the piece that was broken off the machine.
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Here is a photo of an original magnet provided by Rene, and my new magnet....and what's left of the original bracket.
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After about 45 minutes of searching, I found an ideal piece of metal, complete with original oxidation. Bent it, drilled a hole for the securing screw and threaded it.......
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And done!


Now I think I am ready to start repairing some of the issues with the coin mechanism. The coin chute itself was clogged with a greasy and gunky substance......I can't quite explain it. Almost like old wax, but uglier. I had to soak it in solvent, then re-solder the loose mounting joint where the chute solders to the mounting plate. Used everything I could find as a heat sink, so the heat from my torch would not loosen up any of the other solder joints holding the whole thing together.

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In our next installment: the motor and bedplate repairs
-Antique Phonograph Reproducer Restorer-
http://www.EdisonDiamondDisc.com
Taming Orthophonics Daily!


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
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Location: Western Canada
Wyatt, looks amazing. It will rob you of your pennies in no time... :lol:. I have one question....are the marquee ad panels porcelain??. They sure look like it. I assume they should be paper??. Keep posting the progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Victor III
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Quote:
The cabinet has never really been cleaned, and has a very dark appearance. I use a product called NEW LIFE Furniture Masque, made by the RAMAX company. It is buffered with orange oil, and is VERY GENTLE. This means that it works slowly,



Gentle and SLOW is accurate... My husband used a similar product when we refinished our 1885 heart pine floors one late November here in Wisconsin when we could not have the windows open for ventilation, and couldn't sand them for the same reason.

We were on our hands and knees for days removing over 115 years of build up and glue from subsequent layers of horse hair and felt, two layers of carpet, and Lord knows what else that was stuck on the wood that turned it black over a hundred plus years!


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Victor III
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Yes, the signs are porcelain. There are TWO signs! One on the front, and one on the back of the marquee.

Today is bedplate day. I disassembled the top works, removing all rods, gears, and other odd bits. DO NOTE: the bosses on the carriage for the shaver and the reproducer adjustment screw (that contacts the side arm on early reproducers) are NOT drilled and threaded!!!!

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The feedscrew and drive gears were filthy with varnished oil.

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The bedplate was filthy.........

A note about Edison bedplate cleaning. The Japan black finish was applied at the factory, then finished with shellac. Many people, when cleaning bedplated, tend to over-do it with the cleaning solvent and end up eating through the shellac....making a very blotchy and uneven look. I am always very conservative with bedplate cleaning, and always monitor the cleaning so that I remove the dirt and not the shellac. I opted to leave the brass parts alone, as they have a beautiful patina.....the type you can only have after 100+ graceful years.


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It took a little tweaking with the coin chute to get it aligned properly with the coin trip bar, but it works superbly.

I installed the reproducer, put on a record........wound the crank......and dropped a penny down the chute!!!!!!!!!!!!

And then..........

And THEN......................

The reproducer dragged the record to a halt. Confused, I looked at it from a side profile. The middle of the needle bar was dragging on my favorite wax test cylinder. (Uncle Josh, will you EVER forgive me???)

Comparing it to other reproducers I have, the weight is substantially thicker, and when in the proper position in the carriage it simply will not allow enough space for the sapphire to contact the record AND allow enough play for the sapphire to track the groove. How did this work? Surely, this is someones invention.....a sidetrack into empirical experimentation in volume enhancement.

Some keen observation solved the mystery. Looking at the side of the reproducer body, where the set screw holds it in place in the carriage eyelet, you see that the reproducer was in fact mounted in the carriage slightly higher to allow the reproducer to work. The divot left by the screw is right on the bottom edge.........

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I will keep this special reproducer with the machine, but will seek an Automatic to install in it, or possibly a Model B reproducer to allow it to play black wax records.
-Antique Phonograph Reproducer Restorer-
http://www.EdisonDiamondDisc.com
Taming Orthophonics Daily!


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 Post subject: Re: Follow the restoration of an Edison "MANHATTAN" coin op
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Victor IV
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Location: SF Bay Area, Calif.
MicaMonster wrote:
DO NOTE: the bosses on the carriage for the shaver and the reproducer adjustment screw (that contacts the side arm on early reproducers) are NOT drilled and threaded!!!!


That is a critical detail in substantiating the widely-held theory that Edison knowingly sold obsolete 'suitcase' Standard mechanisms to Manhattan for conversion to coin-ops. If Manhattan had bought Standards on the open market the castings would of course have been drilled. It seems abundantly clear that Edison was quite happy to unload the old inventory, and it saved him time and money to leave the castings undrilled since no shaver or adjusting screw would be used on Manhattan's machines.

The mystery remains as to why Edison would knowingly allow another company to make competing coin-ops. There's no conclusive answer, but my theory is that because at the time, Edison had no floor-standing spring-motor coin-ops so the Manhattan was not directly competing with any Edison machine. All of his spring-motor coin-ops were table models.

I've done a lot of research on Manhattan phonographs in the past 15 years or so. I wrote an article over 10 years ago that spelled out everything known to date. It's time for me to write an updated and expanded version to include some new findings. But there are still more mysteries than answers.

I'm very surprised that there are two signs. The only machines I've encountered with signs front and back are the large 'double' machines with two complete mechanisms back-to-back. All of the single machines I've seen only have the porcelain sign on the front, with framing around it.

Like I said, still more mysteries than answers!


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