New Edison Diamond Disc Needle follow up of issues.

[larryh]

Hi all,

I don't know about you all, but on some previous groups we have discussed the new diamond disc needles and our experience with them. There were some who had felt that the needles they had installed were leaving a line on the run off or even in the grooves that was quite noticeable. Something I never felt they should be doing.

In discussing with Steven Medved this issue he was curious what percentage of others were having this problem? I know that two of the three new needles I had him install have done this even with pretty careful care. Expert still is denying any part in this problem, but having heard previously that others were running into this I wondered if any number of our members might say if there new needle is running without leaving any evidence on the record or not?

Larry

[MordEth]

Please note that I added a poll for Larry (above), so feel free to respond to it.

— MordEth

[larryh]

Thanks David,

That is what I needed, just couldn't figure out how to get to it on this site so far.

Larry

[barnettrp21122]

I can't say that I've noticed actual scoring or wear with the new stylii, but I've definitely noticed that the reproduced sound varies quite a lot. Some replacements have sounded fine, but a couple have been only fair. This has been true for me with either Diamond Disc or Amberola stylii. I've installed the best sounding ones I have in the machines I play the most.
I spent some time last year comparing different original and replacement diaphragms and stylii, and the best stylii make any diaphragm sound better, in my opinion.
It's tough to get stuck buying a replacement that doesn't sound so good, but you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that it's flawed enough to return.
Bob B.

[AZ*]

Expert seems to be about the only game in town. Does anyone else on the planet make replacement DD styli?

[coyote]

In the past six months, I've bought three DD styli, and I think ALL of them leave faint marks on the blank runout of SOME discs...on other DDs, they don't leave ANY discernable marks. So, I think it depends on the disc itself a lot of the time. The lines are VERY faint...they're certainly not any deep scoring like a worn stylus would leave. Most of the time I have to hold the record under a good light at an angle to see marks left. I'm comfortable with styli (sometimes) leaving very faint marks. If I were THAT worried about record wear, I'd never play them on anything but modern equipment.

[larryh]

One of my two is leaving a rather faint line as you mentioned. However it left "none" when new. Which wasn't all that long ago. It doesn't change the look of the recording grooves and perhaps it is safe to use. Steven M says that any evidence of scratching is damaging the records as they play and personally it bothers me. Since buying the expensive new needles which frankly I did not expect to do this, I have also purchased two more original heads which have the factory tips. They show no evidence at all of running on any part of the record. Thats after nearly 100 years! It still leave me a bit queasy to see the lines where they were not. In fact I had three of them. The first I purchased from Wyatt left very noticeable marks from the get go. It was determined to have a chipped point. Where along the line that happened is up to debate it seems. Expert claims it did not leave there facility that was, but after seeing more of them do the same after a bit of use, I rather wonder what is actually going on. That is one reason I am wanting to get a feel for how you all see the results in use of your new needles.
The other needle that at the moment is bad actually is changing the look of the playing grooves when observed partially moving across a record. That for sure is not right. I would consider the needles mentioned as leaving faint lines as doing a similar thing even though they didn't end up in the leaving a mark part of the poll.
I have been struck lately by how much damage Edison records over the years have received by bad needles of the original type, or people playing them with other stylus thinking it was alright. I have a feeling that they were more prone to seriously noticeable damage than other types once what ever wrecked the original needle took place. A edison with dull grooves nearly always sounds very poor, where a standard 78 seems to be able to stand a bit of damage and still make it though some clearer. Of course thats not true all the time as I have tossed many 78s that were shot, but I think the edison puts a quick cut to a record in a way the steel needle that is a bit dull doesn't.

[coyote]

Btw, I bought all three of my DD and one Diamond B (same point, different bar) from APSCO, but as stated before, they all come from the same place. I still contend that I notice the same thing with "good" original styli as with the new ones: all will leave marks in the runout area of SOME DDs, and NOT on others.

[larryh]

Coyote,

I don't dismiss your findings. But I have carefully compared a good record that had no lines in the run off. First with the old but good needle. No lines left. Then I tried it with the new faulty diamond. Now I see lines. One needle leaves a more easily seen mark than the other. The third good new needle left no mark. So it is a situation involving the needle, not the record.
I am familiar with the fact that evidently some kind of film on certain records may leave one seeing marks in the run off. But first I be sure that that is not the case with a test of the old, or good point then try the ones I find to be faulty and they will then mark the record.

Larry

[Phonolair]

I noticed this on the last DD reproducer I rebuilt. The first new bar and needle I installed left a mark in the runoff area and there was no mark when I started. I than installed a second new bar and needle and on the same record it left no mark. Although I have not studied this to any length I believe that the needle should not leave a mark. I have rebuilt DD reproducers over the years and they never left any marks. That's why I was surprised when I ran in to one that did. I don't believe they originally left a mark either or all the DD records we find would have run off marks and this is not the case. If I was buying a DD reproducer and when I test it, if it were to leave a mark I would not think of buying it. Just my opinion from what I have seen.

Best Regards, Larry