Playing celuloid cylinders on a Standard?

[FloridaClay]

Hello all,

Would there be any harm to either the styli or cylinders in playing Blue Amberols and 2 and 4-minute Indestructibles on my Standard using C and H reproducers?

Clay

[HisMastersVoice]

As long as you use the C for 2M and the H for 4M, you'll be fine. Avoid playing Columbia black wax and all brown wax cylinders with a model C.

[estott]

If you play celluloid cylinders regularly with an H avoid using in on wax amberols - the celluloid will put an edge on the sapphire.

[phonogfp]

I agree with HMV, with one minor caveat. If you're playing a lot of Blue Amberols with your H (a few times a week or more) over the course of years, you may notice your H sapphire wearing. There was a reason Edison supplied diamond styli for all reproducers introduced after 1912. The celluloid is harder than the wax. Where there is friction, there is wear, and if not the cylinder, it must be the stylus. Admittedly, this will probably take years to occur, but I just thought I'd mention it.

One possible option is to watch eBay for a horizontal carriage for your Standard. They turn up with regularity for around $50 (cheaper than replacing your sapphire!). Once you have the carriage, you can keep your eyes open for a Diamond B (also in plentiful supply in the $125-175 range). With the horizontal carriage and a Diamond B, you can play Blue Amberols with better fidelity and volume (larger diaphragm + heavier weight) than with an H. The carriages can be switched in about 30 seconds for playing your wax records.

If you REALLY want to go whole hog, get the horizontal carriage and then obtain an O reproducer (admittedly pricey). Now, without switching carriages, you can change reproducers having optimal characteristics and styli (both having large diaphragms) in moments and enjoy improved fidelity from almost any record!

Any other ways I can spend your money?

George P.

[FloridaClay]

Thanks guys!

Clay

[alang]

I agree with HMV, with one minor caveat. If you're playing a lot of Blue Amberols with your H (a few times a week or more) over the course of years, you may notice your H sapphire wearing. There was a reason Edison supplied diamond styli for all reproducers introduced after 1912. The celluloid is harder than the wax. Where there is friction, there is wear, and if not the cylinder, it must be the stylus. Admittedly, this will probably take years to occur, but I just thought I'd mention it.

One possible option is to watch eBay for a horizontal carriage for your Standard. They turn up with regularity for around $50 (cheaper than replacing your sapphire!). Once you have the carriage, you can keep your eyes open for a Diamond B (also in plentiful supply in the $125-175 range). With the horizontal carriage and a Diamond B, you can play Blue Amberols with better fidelity and volume (larger diaphragm + heavier weight) than with an H. The carriages can be switched in about 30 seconds for playing your wax records.

If you REALLY want to go whole hog, get the horizontal carriage and then obtain an O reproducer (admittedly pricey). Now, without switching carriages, you can change reproducers having optimal characteristics and styli (both having large diaphragms) in moments and enjoy improved fidelity from almost any record!

Any other ways I can spend your money?

George P.

Or you can get the horizontal carriage and one of these reducer rings, then you can use your H and C reproducers on the large carriage. Slightly cheaper than getting an O reproducer.

Andreas

[mf77]

When I started collecting 35 years ago, I bought a brand new stylus for my Model H which I used on both wax & celluloid 4M cylinders. Within a couple months the sapphire was damaging my wax records, and within 18 months to 2 years it was worn enough to actually start cutting the grooves of celluloid records during loud passages, causing a permanent skip in the groove.
At first, record wear wasn't even all that apparent visually, but when playing a wax cylinder, the sound would start to become muffled as wax slowly built up on the stylus, then suddenly it would skip the groove and sound crystal clear again. To begin with this only happened once during the recording, but over time as the sapphire wore more, it could happen 4 or 5 times during a 4 minute wax cylinder.
The same thing happened with my Model C sapphire & Edison black 2M records eventually from playing 2M Indestructibles.

Being a teenager at the time with a very limited income, and quite a few years away from getting my first phonograph with a horizontal carriage & diamond reproducer, I bought a Model K reproducer & new styli all round, and the Model K was then used ONLY to play celluloid, and the C & H ONLY for wax.
I replaced the C & H sapphires about 3 years ago, so by only playing wax cylinders with these 2 reproducers, the styli lasted over 20 years instead of being worn within 2 years as they had previously.

My advise for many years has been that if you are truly concerned about record wear, then don't put a sapphire stylus anywhere near a celluloid cylinder, or if your situation doesn't allow for an extra carriage with diamond reproducer & adaptor for smaller reproducers or another machine, then at the very least buy a Model K and use it exclusively for either your wax or celluloid cylinders.

[FloridaClay]

Some questions:

1. Is this a horizontal carriage that would take a Diamond B?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDISON-STANDARD ... 2ecd42def5

2. Once one has the carriage and the B, would it work with the usual morning glory horn and crane that came with my Standard, or would I have to get a cygnet horn and crane to use with it?

3. If the morning glory will work, and given the horizontal position of the carriage, is there a special horn connector of some sort required?

4. What are the mechanics of swapping out the carriage?

Clay

[mf77]

1. No

2. You can use your existing horn

3. Yes. Repros are available

4. Usually it simply a matter of undoing a couple screws and sliding out the glide bar the carriage moves across so the carriage can be removed.
Just be very sure the carriage you buy is the right one for you particular model. For example, the horizontal carriage for a Standard D will not fit a Standard B.

[FloridaClay]

Thanks! Most especially for the heads up on getting the right horizontal carriage. (Mine is a Standard D.)

Clay