C250/C19 Database project

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

DGPros wrote:I have another for your project

1. What is the Model Designation? "C 19"

2. What is the Serial Number? "SM-93950"

3. Which finish does the motor plate have?:


3D) "Black with NO pin striping".

4(A) No

4(B) Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous flat surface, or is there a large concentric circular depression (located beneath the turntable) present? "Circular".

4(C) Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have "2 springs"

4(D) Which finish is on the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the motor plate? “Gold plated”

5. Which "Official Laboratory Medallion" is present?


5C) "R-1" = Round emblem stating: “The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison”


6. Which form of record storage is present:


6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; AND: Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips

7. Cabinet Wood Type: "Mahogany"

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate? No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present anywhere on the cabinet: Only Cabinet 19 form 2430

10. Are there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc. with the machine? No
Thank you Gary, I'll record your information into my spreadsheet.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

User avatar
DGPros
Victor III
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Personal Text: Gary
Location: Flemington NJ

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by DGPros »

I would add no traces of grill cloth and center hinge on door.
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat

User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

pianogirl wrote:1. Model Designation: (C-250 or C-19)

Shows both, but serial number plate says C019

2. Serial Number:
79121

3. Bedplate Pinstriping: Y/N
Not sure what this is

4. "Official Laboratory" Medallion: Round/Pentagonal/None
Round see attachment

5. Exact Wording of the Medallion: Please be precise (Abbreviated signature, for example)
"The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model. Thos A Edison"

6. Record Storage: Drawers or Shelves?
Drawers

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak?
Oak

8. Duncan Stop?: Y/N
Not sure what this is see attachment

9. Dealer Tag: Name/Address, Location On Machine
none

10. Original Dated Sales Receipt/Shipping Documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy):
None

11. Grille cloth? Color?
Gold/beige metallic looking (see attachment)

For those with C-19's, please supplement the above information to include the following addendums to the list of criteria that I've asked for previously:

12) Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal?
Not sure (see attachment)

13) Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center shelf or the bottom of the cabinet?
Bottom

14) Are the numbered strips for the record storage 1-36 on both strips or 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?
both strips

15) Does the governor have 2 springs or 3 springs?
Don't know what this is either - sorry.
Thank you, pianogirl.

To clarify, the model number of your "Chippendale" is referred to by the "C 19" contained on the data plate. The medallion reference "250" is a carry-over from the earlier designation of this model being "C 250". Your machine is what I refer to as a "transitional" unit. As the company model designation was changed in early 1919 from the designation of "C 250" to the designation of "C 19", this earlier version of medallion was still used until the stock ran out. After that, a simpler worded medallion was used that merely stated "Diamond Disc Official Laboratory Model". The "Official Laboratory Model" medallion denoted a certain air of "high-end" for marketing purposes, and was only affixed to a few specific models of the many Diamond Disc Phonographs being marketed. There were 2 other previous versions used before the one on your C 19, making it a total of 4 different medallions, dependant on when manufactured.

From your photos, I can elaborate on some of your responses:

3) There is no pinstriping on your motor plate, this is appropriate. The earliest C 250's had gold pinstriping around the perimeter of the motor plate, that disappeared around the beginning of 1917.

6) You stated yours has 2 drawers, and I would expect that there are single record storage dividers in both drawers, and strips numbered alternately, from right to left, 1-37?

8) There is no "Duncan Stop" on yours, this feature was an electric braking mechanism that was only used on the earlier Chippendale C 250, and was discontinued around mid-1918. It can easily be identified by the unit having only one "Start/Stop" lever present, as opposed to 2 levers as yours.

11) Your grille cloth is a replacement, the original would have been either a tan or green colored cloth. Few originals survive intact.

12) Your reproducer, horn throat and other hardware were originally "Gold Plated", though there has been some loss from age, much of yours is still present.

15) The governor is located under the turntable, and would likely have "2 weights", as this was the original configuration for the device. If you wish to remove the turntable to find it (for your own information), you should let the machine run down completely, then remove the reproducer by turning the knurled collar on the horn throat clockwise, then remove the reproducer by pulling it straight out of the horn. Make sure that you place the reproducer somewhere safe with the stylus up, so as to not damage it. Then, with the brake disengaged (as for playing) you can remove the turntable by using one hand on each side of the turntable, and pulling it straight up off of the spindle.

Once removed, you'll notice several openings in the motor plate, the bottom left one exposes the governor to view. You will also notice that there are oil ports clearly indicated on the motor plate, for maintenance oiling of the various bearings, and moving parts of the motor.

You can find a PDF version manual for the Edison Disc Motor, here: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=4&t=1133. It has instructions for the care, maintenance, and repair of your Phonograph.

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them as best I can.

Thank you,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

DGPros wrote:I would add no traces of grill cloth and center hinge on door.
Thanks Gary, I'll make a note of these.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

Hi folks,

I will continue to update my spreadsheet to reflect new entries, so I am posting this updated version of the questionnaire for newer members, or veterans that may not have participated in the project.

For further accuracy, I've found it necessary to develop additional sub-categories for many of the original categories over the course of my study, and they are reflected in this UPDATED post.

Your participation and comments are truly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Fran


The following are particular features that I am observing, please number your responses accordingly.

1. What is the Model Designation? "C 250" or "C 19"

2. What is the Serial Number? "SM-??????"

3. Which finish does the motor plate have?:

3A) "Maroon" with gold pin striping (as the B 250 had).
3B) "Black with Maroon decals" (the maroon decals are applied near the speed control knob, and at the lower left hand corner of the motor plate".
3C) "Black ONLY with pin striping present".
3D) "Black with NO pin striping".

4(A) Are there drip pans present under the governor, innermost spring barrel (found only on the earliest C 250's) AND: are they finished in "Maroon", or "Black”?

4(B) Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous flat surface, or is there a large concentric circular depression (located beneath the turntable) present? Please state "Flat" or "Circular".

4(C) Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have "2 springs" or "3 springs"?

4(D) Which finish is on the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the motor plate? “Gold plated”, or “Gun-metal” (AKA "antique bronze")?

5. Which "Official Laboratory Medallion" is present?

5A) "P-1" = Pentagonal flange with circular boss stating: “The $250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison”
5B) "P-2" = Pentagonal flange with circular boss stating: “The C250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison”
5C) "R-1" = Round emblem stating: “The Model 250 Diamond Disc Phonograph is the Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison”
5D) "R-2" = Round emblem stating: “Diamond Disc Official Laboratory Model Thos A Edison”

6. Which form of record storage is present:

6A) 2 Drawers divided into 5-compartments.
6B) 2 Drawers divided by individual record "slots", each numbered 1-38.
6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; AND: Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips OR are they numbered 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?

7. Cabinet Wood Type: "Mahogany" or "Oak"

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate? Yes/No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present anywhere on the cabinet: Name/Address, location on machine, etc.

10. Are there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc. with the machine? (Dates are particularly noteworthy)

11. Is there Grille cloth present? AND: What is the Color?

12. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door?
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

User avatar
Lucius1958
Victor VI
Posts: 3935
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:17 am
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by Lucius1958 »

Correction to my previous entry:

It should be .3) B (Black with maroon decals).

Bill

User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

Lucius1958 wrote:Correction to my previous entry:

It should be .3) B (Black with maroon decals).

Bill
Thank you, Bill, I appreciate your diligence! I'll add this info to the spreadsheet.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

lmester
Victor Jr
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:04 am
Location: WV, USA
Contact:

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by lmester »

Here is another C19 for your database.

1. C19
2. 79814
3. Black no pin striping. Does have and Edison logo in upper right corner. Can post a pic if you want.
4A. no drip pans
4B. Circular
4C. 2 springs
4D. Gold plated
5. 5C R1
6. 6C one label missing, other label loose in case. Numbered 1-36.
7 Mahogany
8. no
9. "Edison No. 17 cabinet factory" to right of horn.
10. no
11. Black. Possibly not original. Attached with staples and thumb tacks.
12. center rod

User avatar
fran604g
Victor VI
Posts: 3988
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:22 pm
Personal Text: I'm Feeling Cranky
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by fran604g »

lmester wrote:Here is another C19 for your database.

1. C19
2. 79814
3. Black no pin striping. Does have and Edison logo in upper right corner. Can post a pic if you want.
4A. no drip pans
4B. Circular
4C. 2 springs
4D. Gold plated
5. 5C R1
6. 6C one label missing, other label loose in case. Numbered 1-36.
7 Mahogany
8. no
9. "Edison No. 17 cabinet factory" to right of horn.
10. no
11. Black. Possibly not original. Attached with staples and thumb tacks.
12. center rod
Thank you very much, I'll add your C 19 to my spreadsheet. Yours is the 396th I've recorded to date.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

AmberolaAndy
Victor V
Posts: 2423
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm
Location: A small town near Omaha, Nebraska

Re: C250/C19 Database project

Post by AmberolaAndy »

Add mine to your list?

1. C-19
2. 86919
3. 3d Black with no pin striping.
4A. No
4B. Circular
4C. Two springs
4D. Gold plated
5. 5D R2
6. 6C Numbered 1-36 top and bottom
7 Mahogany
8. No
9. "Edison No. 33 cabinet factory" on right side of horn
10. None
11. None when I first got it. But I have since added red cloth to the grille.
12. The center

Post Reply