New acquisition -- Vic 0

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
JerryVan
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by JerryVan »

There is no nut that you have to remove. The pin that goes through the hub of the winding ratchet must be driven out. You'll need an appropriately sized pin punch to do this. Also, you will need to firmly support the ratchet wheel while you are trying to drive the pin out or you'll break the cast iron bracket. Note, the pin MAY be tapered and therefore will only drive out in one direction, while it will only tighten in the other direction.

The ratchet wheel is worn out and should either be replaced, or have it's worn/bent teeth carefully filed straight and sharp.

jboger
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by jboger »

Jerry: We are on the same page. What you called a "hub" I called a nut, incorrectly. That pin needs to be driven out. I'm familiar with tapered pins. I believe I know which way to push. But it looks like as if someone at one time had used a sharpened punch or a needle at one time to drive that pin out. That does not help as it can cause the metal of the pin to spread out inside the hole. Yes, I'm worried about that cast iron. I have not hid hard and so everything right now is intact. I've backed off. What about drilling it out?

jboger
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by jboger »

Success! I got the pin out that held the ratchet wheel to the mainspring barrel arbor. It was NOT a piece of cake. NOT a pleasant stroll through the park. Several hours to get it out. Finally resorted to drilling it out. Maybe blind stinking luck, maybe skill--or maybe a bit of both, but I managed to get my drill bit to go right through the pin nearly dead center with no harm done. Once I got the bit through the pin all the way, it was still another hour of work to knock it out. You can see the remainder of the pin on the end of the drill bit in one of the photos that follows. After I got the pin out, you'd think the hub would just slide right off. Nope. Had to twist it off. What surprised me was that the ratchet wheel and hub (the part through which the pin went through) were all one piece of steel. As for the case, I carefully removed the backboard, the one that had multiple fractures in it. I believe the wood to be maple stained to look like mahogany. Just to be sure I sent off a sample to the Forests Products Lab in Madison, WI. If you send them a sample they will identify the wood for you as a public service. I've contacted a cabinetmaket who will make the backboard. Well, it's a great relief to get that pin out.
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ratchet wheel 004.JPG (160.04 KiB) Viewed 1729 times

jboger
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by jboger »

I've continued to work on this machine. I managed to locate an original ratchet wheel so that I now can wind the motor and let it run. It is very noisy. I can hear the governor. I am very nearly to the point where I can reassemble the machine and hear what it sounds like--maybe this weekend. Still don't have the two bolts and back plate. By black plate, I mean the plate the goes on the inside of the case to which the bracket is bolted to. That I don't have. And haven't looked for it yet. Still, I can reattach the back bracket and horn well enough to hear how the machine sounds.

What I'd like to hear is what suggestions people may have with regards to the horn. It has been painted a garish red. I understand the original color was something like peach or yellow. I think it is underneath the red paint. Is there anyway to remove the red paint but still leave the original paint intact? I suppose there is, but I would need the resources of a major museum to do so.

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Marco Gilardetti
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

Nice to read about this progress!

The inner catch of the backplate is an easy DIY task as it is only a drilled and threaded rectangle of metal. The bolts are another story, though. It's not easy to find bolts with finger-grip trims similar to the original ones.

I'm sorry but I also have no idea about how to peel off only one layer of enamel. I suppose that I would try to wipe off a portion of the red layer with thin sandpaper in some area, just to inspect the original color beneath, take pictures or measures with a colorimeter etc. Then peel everything off and repaint. Quite desctructive I have to admit. I hope someone will reply with a more clever idea.

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Phonolair
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by Phonolair »

jboger wrote: Still don't have the two bolts and back plate. By black plate, I mean the plate the goes on the inside of the case to which the bracket is bolted to.

What I'd like to hear is what suggestions people may have with regards to the horn. It has been painted a garish red. I understand the original color was something like peach or yellow. I think it is underneath the red paint. Is there anyway to remove the red paint but still leave the original paint intact? I suppose there is, but I would need the resources of a major museum to do so.
Only the late Victor O's used knurled thumb screws and metal mounting plate. The earlier and your Victor O would have had the back bracket screwed directly to the case with round head slotted wood screws.
As far has removing the red paint on your horn, you could try a heat gun. Depending on the type of paint and the prep done before this paint was put on you may be able to heat the red paint up with a heat gun causing it to bubble up and come away from the original paint. It's something you can try, sometimes it works and sometimes not.
Best Regards, Larry
P1090489.jpg

outune
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by outune »

Hi John--- Hope all is well! I echo the sentiment that you got a good buy on the machine and it will be a fun machine to restore.

Like Larry's, my early "O" also has the slotted wood screws. You are welcome to drop by and compare your machine to mine so you can see what other challenges you may have on it.

Take Care-

Brad Abell

jboger
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by jboger »

Brad, Larry: Now that is very interesting, veeerrry interesting, as the guy used to say on the old Laugh In show from behind a potted palm. (I'm showing my age.)In an earlier post someone had indicated that he thought it was an early machine from the way the horn or tone are is attached--something to do with a spring as I may (incorrectly) recall. I will say this: you can see the outline of the external bracket on the back board. You do NOT see any indication of a similar piece on the inside. Very interesting (and not shtupid). Well, that may save me a chunk of change as I will tell you getting the ratchet wheel replaed set me back a few bucks.

Now, please let me know the following: Are your wood screws of the pointy kind? That is, do they go into the wood, from the outside, but do not pierce the board and emerge on the otherside (the inside of the box)? Or are there nuts and washers on the inside? Those would seem to strengthen the bracket rather than to just attach the bracket with some wood screws. Inquiring minds definitely want to know.

jboger
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by jboger »

Back on Long Island, NY, where I once lived, is a carriage museum near the town of Stony Brook. Fabulous collection. A number of years ago the museum had acquired a horse-drawn "bus" from the 1840s. It was a form of public transportation back then that ran from South Berwick, ME, to Portland. It looked something like a railroad car on huge carriage wheels and was drawn by something like 6 horses. People paid a fare and got transported to their destination. At one point, a small college in NH owned the carriage and used it to transport the football team to games. Why do I mention all this? The original paint was still on the vehicle, buried beneath about ten coats of paint. The museum had the resources we/I don't have. It took x-rays, it took cross sections of the paint, it did chemical analyses, and then put its peons to work with Q-tips to remove one layer of paint at a time until the original paint was revealed in all its glory. I saw it. It was magnificent, all gaily decorated andproclaiming the route from So. Berwick to Portland. It took years. So here I sit knowing that in principle that red paint could be removed from my horn. Yeah, that'll be the day.

Well, I'm not going to rush to strip it quite yet. Maybe I have some options, like sandblasting, that don't cost too much.

JerryVan
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Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0

Post by JerryVan »

Sandblasting on thin sheet metal, such as your horn, will warp the metal and ruin the horn. Just use some paint stripper.

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