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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Posts: 763
I've turned my attention to the horn. I tested several solvents and found that I can remove the red enamel with acetone. I developed a technique. I used a paper towel moistened with acetone and I rub the exterior of the horn repeatedly, refreshing the paper towel with acetone as necessary. The paper towel picks up the red paint. Eventually a small yellow spot emerges, from which the red paint then recedes from the edges and the yellow spot grows bigger. I also use lots of Q tips. I can clean up one of the panels in about three hours.

Here's what I see: a yellow paint that has a gloss to it. It reminds me of an oil-based house paint, the sort people no longer use. The yellow paint seems to be over a brown primer. That is, a single coat of the lighter yellow has been painted over a darker color. I can see the brush strokes, and the surface of the horn has an unattractive streakiness to it as a result.

Is this how the Vic O horn is supposed to look?


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Western Canada
jboger wrote:
I've turned my attention to the horn. I tested several solvents and found that I can remove the red enamel with acetone. I developed a technique. I used a paper towel moistened with acetone and I rub the exterior of the horn repeatedly, refreshing the paper towel with acetone as necessary. The paper towel picks up the red paint. Eventually a small yellow spot emerges, from which the red paint then recedes from the edges and the yellow spot grows bigger. I also use lots of Q tips. I can clean up one of the panels in about three hours.

Here's what I see: a yellow paint that has a gloss to it. It reminds me of an oil-based house paint, the sort people no longer use. The yellow paint seems to be over a brown primer. That is, a single coat of the lighter yellow has been painted over a darker color. I can see the brush strokes, and the surface of the horn has an unattractive streakiness to it as a result.

Is this how the Vic O horn is supposed to look?

If you Google "victor o phonograph" you can see an assortment of horns to go by.... ;).


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Posts: 763
Tried that. The pictures are not up close enough for me to tell the quality of the painting. For some reason, I thought the only color available was a yellow, which is what I have. Unless the horn was stripped sometime in the past, which I don't think is the case, then I'm looking at the original paint. The quality doesn't seem that great. I know that this was Victor's low-price model, but still . . . I think I need someone to respond who has a horn in original condition who can tell how well the job was done. I am pretty sure I have not removed any of the yellow myself.


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Western Canada
jboger wrote:
Tried that. The pictures are not up close enough for me to tell the quality of the painting. For some reason, I thought the only color available was a yellow, which is what I have. Unless the horn was stripped sometime in the past, which I don't think is the case, then I'm looking at the original paint. The quality doesn't seem that great. I know that this was Victor's low-price model, but still . . . I think I need someone to respond who has a horn in original condition who can tell how well the job was done. I am pretty sure I have not removed any of the yellow myself.


Really...??. If you try this link.....you won't get any better than this. You can zoom right in.

http://www.cottoneauctions.com/lots/6234/victor-type-o

Make sure you hit the full screen button on the right.

As previously mentioned earlier on this thread.....you never know what is under a horn that has been painted. Normally they were "re-painted" due to condition issues. You also never know how many times a horn has been messed with in this state.
These horns (like all horns) were sprayed on and not brushed on. With regards to the O....there are variations. Some have red accenting while others are all mustard yellow. Most seen, the yellow is more a semi-gloss and not gloss finish.

Hope this helps... :).


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Posts: 763
That I missed. Really. Judging by that item, my horn has been repainted more than once. The one in the Cottone auction uses a white primer, which is what I would expect, not yellow over a brown. The Cottone Vic O does not appear to be streaky whatsoever. I've uploaded two jpegs of mine. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Western Canada
jboger wrote:
That I missed. Really. Judging by that item, my horn has been repainted more than once. The one in the Cottone auction uses a white primer, which is what I would expect, not yellow over a brown. The Cottone Vic O does not appear to be streaky whatsoever. I've uploaded two jpegs of mine. Thanks.


Regardless how inexpensive the Vic O was, all horns were handled with the same care and out of the same paint shop. They were finely sprayed. The horns that had red accents sprayed on tend to show fading of the red over time.

Although this is only my opinion what I'm about to write.......given the "original" (or lack there of) condition of your machine. Along with what a real nice Vic O would sell for......I would not worry too much about your horn. A (attempted) cleaned horn like yours is still worth less than a restored horn and will never match the nice case you have restored.

If mine, I would strip it right down and re-spray it back as close as I could find. I would then order the two decals for Gregg Cline and call it a day.

Now again, that's just me.... ;).


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Posts: 763
Grammophone78: I can't argue with your logic. This machine will always be a repaired machine. Still, I had hoped I could restore it back to some sort of original condition. But I can now clearly see that yellow paint is not original. I don't view what I've done so far as a wasted effort, not that anyone suggested it was. Still, my curiosity is piqued and I want to see what is under that yellow paint. I wonder if the original paint is somewhere under there... Anyway, every time I get on the Forum and ask a question I learn something new. From this experience I have learned much about the original production of these horns. And what happens to them over time. Thanks for that.


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Western Canada
jboger wrote:
Grammophone78: I can't argue with your logic. This machine will always be a repaired machine. Still, I had hoped I could restore it back to some sort of original condition. But I can now clearly see that yellow paint is not original. I don't view what I've done so far as a wasted effort, not that anyone suggested it was. Still, my curiosity is piqued and I want to see what is under that yellow paint. I wonder if the original paint is somewhere under there... Anyway, every time I get on the Forum and ask a question I learn something new. From this experience I have learned much about the original production of these horns. And what happens to them over time. Thanks for that.


You are most welcome. You have to excuse my pragmatic way. Many may think differently... ;) :lol:. There is nothing wrong (if you have the time and curiosity) in seeing what's under all the layers. In fact, it's good practice for when you need to save or clean a really rare horn.

Keeping a machine as original as possible is without question the right decision. With your wonderful case rebuilt, etc...you will have brought this machine back to life and that's commendable.

With the restored case and restored horn.....the machine will look balanced and beautiful.... :D.

I should clarify one thing. I mentioned "two" decals from Gregg Cline. The reason....this horn (like most Victor horns) has two decals. The VTM decal with HMV and the patent info decal (square) which is applied opposite the lock pin for the horn elbow. Although you will never see it when the elbow is on......it was there.... ;).

Best of luck.


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:30 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Michigan
jboger wrote:
The one in the Cottone auction uses a white primer, which is what I would expect, not yellow over a brown. The Cottone Vic O does not appear to be streaky whatsoever. Thanks.


From what I know Victor never used a primer on their horns, they painted directly onto the bare metal. In the Cottone auction picture I believe what you are seeing that looks white it actually the bright silver tin where there are chips or scratches in the paint. In the seams of the horn the white color is probably some left over cleaning residue.

Best Regards, Larry


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 Post subject: Re: New acquisition -- Vic 0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:38 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Posts: 763
First, happy new year to everyone! I now have two of three governor weights of the proper type for a Vic O, the sort that wrap around the governor spring. You can see one in a photo that follows. The mainspring barrel now has a lid. These parts have come off a Vic I junker that Bill (Rizbone) was kind enough to let me salvage some parts from. Now I am confronted with a question. The governor from the Vic I, which I assume to be original, is different from my Vic O. (It is the one more towards the center in the photos that follow.) Not the steel part (not the worm gear), but the brass parts that slide over the shaft. These parts are different from my Vic O. (I hope the difference can be see in the photos.) Which is correct, or are both correct, the one for a Vic O, the other for a Vic I? Note as well, that the braking disk is thicker on the Vic I. At this point I will say this, I have learned an enormous amount about early Vics from this restoration job. I hope others have as well. John


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