Tinfoil Machines

[Victrolacollector]

I have always been interested in tin foil machines. Are reproductions available and how much would one expect to pay? Also, is the tin foil still available for these?

[TinfoilPhono]

There have been a lot of tinfoil phonograph replicas made over the years, based on many different models. Many others have been made as generic machines rather than as a true replica of an existing original. Fundamentally they are simple, with two upright supports for the mandrel shaft, and a speaker/recorder unit. That said, the devil is in the details. Whether an accurate replica of an original or a fantasy creation, they must be very precise in their manufacture if you hope to actually use it. I've seen a lot of poorly-made replicas over the years which barely function at all.

The most frequently reproduced machine is the first prototype phonograph as built by Edison's assistant John Kruesi. These have been made by dozens of machinists, hobbyist and professional for 90 years. Blueprints of the original machine were sold by the Edison Historic Site in New Jersey for many years, and these can still be found online (and in the appendix of my own book "Tinfoil Phonographs," published in 2001). Here again, quality varies enormously according to the skill and commitment of the maker. But even the best Kruesi replicas are not easy to work with. It was, after all, a prototype and a lot of the details hadn't been worked out. Later machines tended to be easier to adjust and manipulate. Still, with some effort, and a well-made replica, the Kruesi is capable of amazing recordings. It's just not as simple as with later designs.

There are a great many excellent replicas out there, most especially those made by Bill Ptacek from 1997 until his tragic death in 2004. One of the problems for those who want such exquisite replicas now is that even the reproductions are very hard to find. The best machines -- from Ptacek, Bill Miller, and other top-notch machinists -- were typically made in very limited quantities, with all of them pre-sold prior to production. They don't turn up in the resale market all that often.

The late Ray Phillips commissioned superb replicas of two of his original tinfoils, the Edison Parlor Model and the Edison demonstration model made by Edme Hardy. Both are great but once again they were pre-sold and don't often change hands today.

There were truly outstanding replica Hardy tinfoils made in France in recent years, I don't know if any are still available.

Quality replicas are not cheap. They are time-consuming to make, and time is money. You can expect to pay upwards of $2500-$3500 for a truly first-rate replica Kruesi, Hardy, Parlor or many others, with prices going up dramatically from there for the larger and more detailed machines. A Ptacek-made Bergmann Exhibition tinfoil which he originally sold for $6,500 in 1999/2000 sold a few years ago at auction for around $18,000.

One model that turns up relatively often is the so-called Gillet tinfoil. These are technically not replicas, but instead are made from detailed drawings and descriptions published in England in 1892, and reprinted since (including in my book). As designed, this is a very crude machine that doesn't work very well at all. Some modern machinists have opted to improve upon the poor design to make them more attractive as well as more functional. You need to know what you're buying when it comes to the Gillet. The one I owned in the 1990s was awful, but I worked with one made by Bill Miller in mid-2000s that was superb. On the plus side, these are usually less expensive than others due to their simplicity and total lack of any cast parts.

I had tinfoil custom-made in the 1990s, after a friend in the Henry Ford Museum begged me to help them get foil to use for demonstrations. The Edison site in NJ also bought some. I packaged about 100 pounds to sell to other collectors. I had more made later on but the cost kept rising steadily, to the point that it wasn't feasible. I never made a profit on tinfoil, I was happy to supply it as a service to other collectors. But minimum orders were large, and as the price rose the demand kept shrinking. It got to the point that I would have to buy a two-year supply, which tied up a lot of money.

Once upon a time tinfoil was used in dentistry. That use has nearly disappeared, but it is sometimes possible to get some foil through a friendly dentist, or from a dental supply company. The only problem (besides the cost) is that none of the dental foils in the market is of ideal thickness. The 1.0 mil version is much too thin, the 3.0 is much too thick. The 2.0 mill foil will work, and will work better than aluminum, but it's just a bit too thick to give outstanding results. By mid-1878 Edison had discovered that 1.5 mil foil strikes the perfect balance and gives the best recordings, so that was what I commissioned for the Ford and the Edison site, and it's what I still work with today (fortunately I kept enough for myself).

Tinfoil phonographs are a lot of fun, as well as (obviously) very historic, so I hope you can find a good example! I'm always happy to 'talk tinfoil' so feel free to ask questions. I've been obsessed with these for many decades now, and have handled literally dozens of originals and many more replicas.

[JimN]

Victrolcollector, if you do not have Rene Rondeau's book on Tinfoil phonographs, it should be your priority to buy a copy. Rene mentioned it in his reply, but did not state if he still has copies for sale.

I can't remember how much Rene charged me for the tinfoil that I bought from him, but it was not cheap. And since none has been made in the years since, it's probably just getting more valuable.

At one time I had 9 tinfoil replica machines, but sold 4 of them at a Donley auction. Randy Donley correctly predicted that replica tinfoil machines bring high prices at auction.

Jim Nichol

[Django]

I plan to make at least one tin foil machine after I retire, (still nearly two years away). I have a complete set of mechanical drawings for an Edison machine. I don't know if this drawing set is still available anywhere. If I only make one machine, the base will be machined from solid, but if I make a short run I may have the base case. The cost of case hardening some of the components is fairly high, so I may make some to sell in order to defray the foundry and heat treating cost. Here is the cover photo and an assembly view. If there is any interest, please let me know. It is still a couple years off.