Opinions on the location of horn exit on portables.

[larryh]

Hello All,

I have owned a few various portables over the years. Now and then I see one that has the round opening towards a front corner. I usually think that would not have the same sound quality as one that opens to the rear using the lid as a reflector. I have a 101 Brunswick with a front opening horn, its loud and clear, but I don't think it has the depth if a portable can have any, of the rear opening ones I have. I once owned a late type with the radio grill looking cover and it was basically poor sounding to me. Wondered what you portable fans find to work the best, front, top or rear?

Larry

[AZ*]

All of my suitcase style portables (Victor, Columbia, HMV, Birch, PAL, Russian) have the horn opening at the rear with the inside of the lid as a reflector. It gives the horn a fairly good length in a compact space. They sound pretty good for their size. I'm quite smitten with a blue HMV 101 I own. I think I prefer it to the 102!

[MordEth]

I'm quite smitten with a blue HMV 101 I own. I think I prefer it to the 102!

The HMV 101 is a very nice portable, although not having heard a 102, I can’t compare the two of them. Here’s another blue HMV 101 portable, for reference:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRTRnI22tL0[/youtube]
This is definitely one of the nicer portables on which I’ve listened to records.

— MordEth

[phonophan79]

Well, i'll throw in my 2 cents about the best sounding portable I have (not that many). ...but it's a Russian portable and it really is very small compared to most portables. Although, I believe these were made new in the 50's. The unique little horn doesn't sound too bad.

I don't move the horn to face "out" until :40 seconds in. I was afraid being up so close the camera audio would distort, but it's not too bad. You can hear a slight change when I move the horn.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6cGbibXZsw[/youtube]

[gramophoneshane]

I'm not so sure that position of the horn opening would have much effect on sound quality, as the actual length & design of the horn itself.
I can't really see the lid as a reflector improving sound quality in most cases either. I guess it could make the sound more directional, but not much more. I suppose you could disconnect the lid stay to experiment with that one
I think the main reason a lot of portables with a horn opening at rear sound better is because the horn runs from the tonearm to the front, across the front & then back to the rear.
Those with a front opening are generally lucky if the horn goes from the tonearm across the cabinet to the left & back to the right before the opening.
Still, a shorter horn that's well designed will usually sound better than a poorly designed longer horn.
The first portable I ever bought had the horn opening at the front of the motorboard, and it sounded every bit as good as an HMV 101.

[larryh]

Thanks to the posted U tube sites, I really like the sound on the HMV machine it has a nice full sound. The russian is certainly an unusual machine the likes of which I have never seen.

I do think however that the rear lid does indeed add some depth to the sound. A neighbor had a small Sonora of his grandfathers he was getting going and I helped him with a few records. His lid support was broken and when we held the lid up where it belonged it had a much stronger sound than without it. I believe the HMV is very similar in design to the Telefunken I have. I think I posted a photo of it at some point?

I would have to really hear one of the front round opening machines in person to see what the effect is.

[OrthoFan]

Hi Larry:

The Brunswick 101 was a very popular portable, based on the number of examples that turn up today. But, unlike the HMV 101 or 102, or the Russian equivalent, the Brunswick 101 was designed prior to the introduction of electrical recording. Comparing its sound quality to machines that were designed to squeeze as much bass performance out of the post-1925 electrical recordings as possible--those equipped with exponentially tapered tonearms/horns and more sonically sensitive sound boxes--is kind of like comparing apples and oranges, regardless of the position of the horn's mouth.

I think a more fair comparison would be between the Brunswick 101 and the Victor VV-50 or VV-35, or the HMV 100--all of which pre-date the electrical process, and use the lid as a reflector.

Based on what I've listened to, the Brunswick 101 does a very good job with acoustically recorded records. The VV-50 is louder, but I think the Brunswick 101's front mounted horn mouth brings out more of the sparkling quality of these records.

[larryh]

That may be as the sound is quite sharp and clear on the 101. I sort of felt the size of the opening might constrict the amount of tone not being able to reflect as it would in the rear. I wasn't aware that acoustic versions of portables weren't apt to use the rear as a sound board? I usually play acoustics on the latter machines as well and still the amount of sound seems better when it can open more widely, but I am still curious to hear the front opening version of the Brunswick. They have good quality parts it seems.

As a side note to this, my 101 has a very heavy feel to the spring, sort of like it's wound tight even when it isn't. Makes it a bit hard to judge where your at. I had it serviced and they said it was just the way it was. I wonder if others have this effect with theirs or do they wind easily as most other machines would?

[gramophoneshane]

I've got 3 versions of the 101, and none of them are hard to wind until the spring is nearly fully wound.
Do you know which motor yours has?

[MordEth]

The Brunswick 101 is a nice machine, although I’m not sure how I’d compare it to the other portables on which I’ve listened to records.

Here are a couple of recordings by Carl Fenton's Orchestra, played on John’s Brunswick 101:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caxVnLgVi4c[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87XUxGrUD14[/youtube]

I think that the latter video sounds better (due to the microphone on my camera), but the former shows different shots of the machine, and I think everyone knows “It Ain’t Gonna Rain No Mo’”.

We did a few more videos of this machine (out in one of the parks of South Boston), but these videos aren’t as useful for hearing how it sounds.

— MordEth